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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Topic: Coil Voltage
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Author  [Modern View]
Dennis (VA)

10-16-2012 07:38:49
70.192.207.85



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Stopped my 9N for gas and it wouldn"t restart (no spark). In trying to find problem, I checked the voltage at the terminal on the top of the coil. It was slightly over 12V. Shouldn"t the voltage be lower with the original resistor block in the circuit? The coil is a 12V can. Do resistors go bad and how do you test the coil to see if is still good? Thanks for the help as this is driving me to drink.

Does Bruce (VA) live any where near Montross, VA

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jokester

10-25-2012 06:52:19
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to kornfused, 10-16-2012 07:38:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeBoy, man, Alzheimer patient, or whatever you are.........an N tractor never had anything close to a carbon resistor!!!!!!!!

What in the name of Jesus, for what possible purpose are you introducing this carbon tale here? Whatever random thought pops into your head? Some people............



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36 coupe

10-27-2012 03:28:50
66.186.169.176



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to jokester, 10-25-2012 06:52:19  
Because resistors can change value.There was a resistor that changed value in a high voltage control circuit that let the HV increase to the point where it cracked picture tubes around the anode connector.Ive found some wire wound resistors marked wrong.The Ford ignition resistor is designed to change its hot and cold resistance.You have never heard of Globar resistors that under go large resistance changes between cold and hot.My point is you cant say that resistors are just open or ok.The Ford ignition resistor can develope poor connections at the rivets.I have over 60 years in mechanics and electronics.I have had to replace ignition resistors in Ford cars, trucks and tractors.What makes looney tunes like you insult people?I suffer no fools.

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Dell (WA)

10-16-2012 09:17:23
63.226.219.33



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to Dennis (VA), 10-16-2012 07:38:49  
Dennis........you ask......."Do resistors go bad".......resistors are just like yer home lightbulbs, they either work (bright) or they don't (DARK) Surprizingly enuff, until you have a complete circuit (points closed, which is a switch) you will have the same volts all over. Its the LAW; Kirchhoff's Law.

You ask......"how do you check a coil".......with my secret sparkie tester.

Take enny sparkie and bend the side electrode out for a full 3/16" gap. Now plug the sparkie tester into enny sparkie wire and ground the metal shell to enny bracket. Now with yer ignition ON, crank yer starter motor and watch the sparkies jump the 3/16" gap and answer this question. Do the sparkies jump with blue-snott authority; ...or... are they wimpy yellowish-orangish poor excuses? ........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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36 coupe

10-25-2012 06:12:52
66.186.169.176



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to Dell (WA), 10-16-2012 09:17:23  
Wire wound resistors are stable and open on failure but carbon resistors can change value.I have had plenty of trouble with a tv circuit designed by stupid engineers powered an 8 transitor circuit from a 250 volt power supply.They used 2 2 watt carbon resistors that heated and reduced value and wiped out the transistors and many capactors.This untrained TV man just used a pair of 2 watt wire wound resistors to fix the problem after all cooked parts were replaced.This problem happened so often I kept a complete stock of parts to handle the problem.

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soundguy

10-16-2012 07:55:17
184.246.120.224



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to Dennis (VA), 10-16-2012 07:38:49  
ditto what bruce said.

when most people start diagnostics.. they miss some of the most important steps.

observing state.

open vs closed circuits are 2 different things.

when a circuit is open.. no current flows.. thus you get no voltage drops.

roll her over till points are closed to make your tests.

otherwise.. bruce gave a good list..



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Bruce (VA)

10-16-2012 07:48:32
24.125.80.178



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 Re: Coil Voltage in reply to Dennis (VA), 10-16-2012 07:38:49  
" Shouldn"t the voltage be lower with the original resistor block in the circuit? "

It depends if the points are open or closed.

If the points are open, you will see battery voltage; less if closed (9v or so).

Chances are pretty slim that you have a bad resistor or bad coil.

Coil problems are difficult to diagnose. For starters, round coils are pretty robust & square coils aren’t (because of the difference in insulation used), but neither one will hold up to a poorly done 12v conversion that allows too much current to the coil or leaving the key on (see tip # 38). Too much current creates heat which melts the insulation. Insufficient resistance in a 12v conversion will do the same thing. Rarely do coils just “go bad.”

There are a few ways to see if a coil is bad, but it’s not possible to determine if a coil is good w/o some expensive testing equipment. If you detect a dead short or high resistance in the coil w/ an ohm meter, it’s bad. If it’s cracked, it’s bad. If a sidemount coil w/ battery voltage to the primary will not jump a ¼” gap from the secondary wire to the block, it’s bad. But, here is the hard part: even if you do not detect a short, even if it will produce a spark, even if it’s not cracked, that doesn’t mean the coil will work when it’s hot & under a load. So, it’s a process of elimination. If the tractor starts & runs fine for 30 minutes or an hour then cuts off & refuses to re-start, and you checked for spark at the plugs & it had no spark at all, AND you have the correct voltage at the coil that’s a good sign that you have a bad coil. Let it cool off, restart it & if you have a good spark, odds are it’s a bad coil. But, even then, you might end up w/ a spare coil on the shelf!

Bottom line.......coils do go bad, but I'll venture a guess that 75% of new N coils sold today are sold to folks who do not understand how to diagnose a poor spark problem or how a coil works. So, for those who don’t know any better, in a no spark situation the first suspect is usually the coil……and, more often than not, it isn’t the problem.

Just pull the distributor & see where your spark went.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.).

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)

4. The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, chances are it needs new bushings.

Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

I'm in Old Church, eastern Hanover Co.

Post back w/ results & any other questions.

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