| Author |
[Modern View]
|
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 08:39:38
173.84.207.180
|
my 8n (front dist) was running fine when i was
mowing the other day then it started popping and
farting and running bad, the longer i ran it the
worse it got, tried to get it to the shed and it
died, looked it over didnt see any obvious signs
so i let it sit awhile, about 4 hours latter i
tried it and bang it fired right up and ran like
new, i used it for about 20 min and it was fine so
i put it away and was going to get a new coil...
NOTNOW its cold and i try to start it and its just
puffing pulled the plugs out and cranked it and i
only have ONE spark plug firing!!! i changed the
coil and its the same, looked at the cap and roter
and it "looks" ok...... SO what would cause it
to fire on 1 plug but not the others??? thanks
much
|
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 15:46:00
173.84.207.180
|
|
last update...it RUNS :) in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| | ok so i "looked" at TSC 26.00 for rotor and points !!!!!! i think NOT and like said on here ive never had good luck with TSC parts either ...
Nobody in this town has many parts for an 8N BUT there is probably 500 of them in this county... but i lucked out and got points-condenser-rotor-gaskets and plugs in a kit for 24.00 from the kabota dealer. so i made a new strap from the old points put all the pieces back together and other than have 2 wires crossed it fired right up :)
im a happy camper again AND its because of the help here!!! NOW anybody have a easy way to put the plug wires in the factory tube where they belong??? whoever tuned it last just ran them outside the tube and id like to put them back inside... thanks again..
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| JCinKY
09-14-2012 17:29:51
166.147.120.31
|
|
Re: last update...it RUNS :) in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 15:46:00
|
| Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
SHan, glad you got'er running again. I've bought TSC parts with mixed results.
Easiest way I've found to get those plugg'em wires back in the tube is to disconnect em from your dist cap an remove the rubber boots. Then just fish em through the respective holes. Start with #4 and work up...less to run into that way.
-Jeff
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Dell (WA)
09-14-2012 20:56:32
71.217.30.115
|
|
Re: last update...it RUNS :) in reply to JCinKY, 09-14-2012 17:29:51
|
| | sHan.........what Jeff sez, start fishing with #4 first. Then #3, and finally #2. OK, here's the HARD part, #1. Tip: wrap the dizzy end with some bailin' warr (or enny thin wire) and fish it thru yer tube, now you can pull yer HEAVY sparkie wire thru the tube. Simple, eh? Didja know you can gitt "silicon grease" for electric stove terminals that you can also use to "grease" yer sparkie wires for eazier installation? Go shopping at hardware store and ASK. ........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-miester
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Bob Harvey
09-14-2012 16:28:45
209.91.107.156
|
|
Re: last update...it RUNS :) in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 15:46:00
|
| Glad you got him working. You may still have problems with the points (according to the 'pros'). Good luck and enjoy!
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 12:53:58
173.84.207.180
|
|
update..... in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| ok with yalls help its come down to a broken copper strip and a bad set of points, the strip was easy to see (once i looked for it) and the points arm that rubs the lobes is "bent" or over stretched and not letting the points open, what caused this i have no clue because these were "supposed" to be new points and tune up, so im going to push my luck and go to TSC and try to get points and use the strap off the old ones to make a new strap and then see what i got :) THANKS for putting up with my dumb questions :)
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Bill Rowles
09-14-2012 22:13:22
76.2.232.2
|
|
Re: update..... in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 12:53:58
|
| I had a new set of points bought from Tractor Supply that would not work because the movable part was too wide and rubbed on the attachment screws. Also had a distributer cap in the "tuneup kit" that would not fit quite right......I will not buy ignition parts there anymore.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| HCooke
09-14-2012 15:30:59
70.195.64.74
|
|
Re: update..... in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 12:53:58
|
| Don't buy points at TSC!
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| doubleN
09-14-2012 14:27:23
74.45.19.192
|
|
Re: update..... in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 12:53:58
|
| | No sHan-- TSC electrical components are a "NO! NO!" Go to a NAPA.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Bruce (VA)
09-14-2012 13:42:19
24.125.80.178
|
|
Re: update..... in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 12:53:58
|
| | " and go to TSC and try to get points" Noooooo! You are wasting your time & money. You will be buying junk at about $20 Did you miss what I said about using quality parts?
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Dell (WA)
09-14-2012 10:59:17
63.226.213.197
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| | sHan........uh? you say you don't want to replace the coil??? Then later on you confess to converting to a roundcan coil. While the ORIGINAL squarecan frontmount coil has it's weakness, the 6V-roundcan coil's are considered BULLETPROOF. Then you show a picture of yer dizzy with a BROKEN points connector and you wonder why you don't have enny sparkies. You don't suppose there is a relationship between broken points connector and NO sparkies, do you??? And surprizingly enuff, the weird 4-dizzy wears and wobbles and will only connect sparkies to 1-nipple. BTW.....the rotor should NOT touch the 4-brass contacts inside the capple. BYTE the BULLET and replace yer worn-out frontmount dizzy. .......respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Well..John,PA
09-14-2012 17:39:12
75.75.159.143
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Dell (WA), 09-14-2012 10:59:17
|
| | We TRY.....WE TRY....WE Try. Windsor speak'N.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 12:17:33
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Dell (WA), 09-14-2012 10:59:17
|
| i dont recall saying i dont want to replace the coil.. i had to replace it before because the square can one died so i converted it over to a 12V round coil BUT its ran for months since i replaced that coil, this just popped up the other day, TODAY is the first time i have ever took the distributor off the tractor so see what it looks like. so i didnt see any broken parts till TODAY, and i do have sparkie but just on ONE plug :)
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Bruce (VA)
09-14-2012 09:30:36
24.125.80.178
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| | " and im going to plead the 5th on the dist because ive never been in it," Well, do you think that might be where the problem is? There are two schools of thought when it comes to getting a non-running tractor to start. One way is to just start replacing every part you can get to until it starts or you run out of money. The other way is to take a step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. You have solved half the problem by determining it is a spark problem. That doesn’t mean you need to replace all of the electrical parts on the tractor! The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. Remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap & take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang & can only go back one way unless you really force it on. Look at how the points & condenser set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! Turn the tang & observe how the points open & close. If this is your first time doing it, draw a sketch!. Make sure you are using quality parts; the points should have a phenolic rubbing block & not the cheap white plastic crap. Use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points. (* see below) Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that goes to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points) Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor that the coil pig tail does. The condenser wire goes the opening on the top right. Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or mis-aligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure the blade is at a perfect right angle to the points & you want to feel just the slightest bit of drag when you pull the blade through the points. Set the points on the highside of the cam. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. Dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. And, don’t forget to lube the rubbing block w/ cam lube; not Vaseline, not bearing grease, but cam lube. (** see below)
After you set the points, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)
With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps: 1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded. 2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open. 3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity! 4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem. It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover. Post back w/ results & any other questions. * NAPA part numbers: · Points: FD-6769X · Condenser: FD-71 · Rotor: FD-104 · Cap: FD-126 ** Distributor cam lube: http://www.autoanything.com/fluids-manuals-63-771-1978/201A1960.aspx?kc=FFPMM
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 09:38:26
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Bruce (VA), 09-14-2012 09:30:36
|
| thanks, im not one to "throw parts at it" now if i have some good used parts laying around i may throw them at it ONE at a time to see where the trouble is,, so far ive used my spark tester (new plug on the end of new spark plug wire) to test the cap and i only have spark coming out of #4 so i will try to fallow your instructions and pull the dist. ive never done it before and dont have a book so il go at it slow :) thanks
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| old
09-14-2012 10:18:22
209.86.226.27
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 09:38:26
|
| BEFORE you do any thing go and buy the $30 I-T FO-4 manual so you have the info and pictures you need so as not to make a simple mistake like forcing the distributor back on and breaking it. The I-T manual has a good number of pictures of the distributor and all so as to make it easy to work on it and that distributor is made so you can work on it at the table. Being a front mount be sure if you get into the point to set them at 0.015 which is the gap for the front mount do not set them at 0.025 which is for the side mount. Also spark has to be able to jump a 1/4 inch gap or more or it is not good enough to run well
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 10:34:01
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to old, 09-14-2012 10:18:22
|
| thanks.. i have no choice right now i have to get this running, i am going to get a book for it as soon as i can....
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| old
09-14-2012 10:42:06
209.86.226.27
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 10:34:01
|
| Send me an e-mail and I can scan to 2 pages of the manual that deal with the front mount distributor and maybe that would help you. But any good farm and home place will be likely to have the manual on hand
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Bruce (VA)
09-14-2012 10:13:01
24.125.80.178
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 09:38:26
|
| | " and dont have a book " I've probably given you enough info to set the points, but you really do need the manuals. See tip # 39.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 10:32:10
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Bruce (VA), 09-14-2012 10:13:01
|
| | ok got it off things dont look to good.. points look like crap, points wont open on ANY lobe (even after adjusting them), and i the brass strip is broke off (i think) the end of the tab in the picture with the circle around it is very stiff and dont bend, and there is nothing sticking out of the points.. i attached some pictures,,, thanks for the help... 
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| HCooke
09-14-2012 11:43:40
70.195.64.101
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 10:32:10
|
| Replace the broken copper strap with one from the old set of points. The replace the points and make sure there is a .015 gap on each lobe. Sould take care of the problem. Report back.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 12:12:21
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to HCooke, 09-14-2012 11:43:40
|
| any suggestion as to what to use for the strap??? i dont have any old points laying around... thanks
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| old
09-14-2012 14:42:33
209.86.226.40
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 12:12:21
|
| A piece of wire works to replace that strip. Also do not buy the points for your local TSC go to NAPA or O'Reilly's and get a good set the TSC ones are china junk and cause more problems then they fix
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| old
09-14-2012 09:13:20
209.86.226.34
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| Well by now you should know how to pull the distributor to work on it. Double check that the points open to 0.015 on all 4 lobes of the distributor shaft. If they do not then that could be where your problem is and it needs to be replaced or rebuilt. If you have good point opening then it could be a simple cracked cap and to find that spray the cap with starting fluid let dry then look for lines inside of it
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 09:24:22
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to old, 09-14-2012 09:13:20
|
| | i guess il show more of my stupidity now :( how the heck could 1 of the four lobes open the points to fire but not the other 3 ?? and im going to plead the 5th on the dist because ive never been in it, all ive ever did was take the top mounted coil off and convert it over to an external coil. (did that a few months back) thanks
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Britcheflee
09-14-2012 10:20:22
67.187.170.181
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 09:24:22
|
| If you have a spark plug wire that you know is good perhaps you could methodically remove each spark plug wire from the distributor cap, attach the new one with a spark plug and check for spark (ensure you replace wires in correct order - mark if necessary) - if you do get a spark then must be the wires/plug, if you do not get a spark and you have power going into the coil at the top (check with meter) then probably you have something going on inside the distributor - might want to check inside the cap - see if there is any damage to pick ups - check rotor for good connection to cap via the spring on the top of it - mine is easy to remove as I do not have a shroud on the radiator - however removing the whole thing is fairly straightforward as there are only two bolts holding it on - would be well nigh impossible to check points etc with it in place to remove and follow instructions given. Replacement is safe as you cannot get it wrong - it will either fit flush against the block or not do not try to crank down the bolts unless you are 100% sure it is installed right and flush to block as you could break the ears on the distributor.
Lee
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 10:36:33
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Britcheflee, 09-14-2012 10:20:22
|
| thanks, i already tested the spark on the cap with
my homemade test wire, i only got spark out of one terminal and my butt (because i had my finger in
the wrong place) :(
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| old
09-14-2012 10:08:15
209.86.226.27
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 09:24:22
|
| The bushings wear in the distributor and when that happens yep you can get points that do not open the same on all 4 lobes and that can/will cause odd problems. Could also be as simple as the points slipping or a bad cap as I said
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 10:37:17
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to old, 09-14-2012 10:08:15
|
| thanks, looking into it now...
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| Jimbo's 8n
09-14-2012 08:47:46
198.234.106.20
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to sHan tn, 09-14-2012 08:39:38
|
| Mine did the same thing. I found it to be bad plug wires as well as the points. I changed the plugs, wires, rotor, distributer cap, points and condensor and it"s running like a champ.
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
| sHan tn
09-14-2012 09:25:42
173.84.207.180
|
|
Re: ok stumped again need help in reply to Jimbo's 8n, 09-14-2012 08:47:46
|
| thanks the guy i got it from put new wires and cap on it before i got it,, that said it doesnt mean they couldnt be bad,,, thanks
|
[Reply] [No Email] | |
