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Bob Nelson 10-31-2009 17:43:37 76.113.226.72 739231 Report to Moderator	This tractor has started right up for 15 years; last week it refused to start. I put a basic kit in the carb. (new needle, seat, gaskets). Carb appears to work fine; float is good and doesn't stick. Carb is nice and clean. There is spark; but maybe it is too weak? Pulled it and it would start running (weakly) and then quit. I have a new coil, spark plugs, and tune-up kit coming. Do you guys think new ignition parts will do the job? [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob Nelson 11-01-2009 09:15:14 76.113.226.72 739288 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   Thanks everyone. The input and ideas are very helpful. You are correct in that I have not been able to isolate fuel vs ignition. Now I have more advice on how to figure this out. It is 6 volt. Battery (quite new) is on a maintainer (Battery Minder) so is good. Fuel does run out the bottom bolt. After cranking some, I find fuel in the choke/air inlet and it drips at the air inlet connection. So, I'm thinking gas comes through the nozzle. The sparkplugs are DRY though; not wet at all. These dry plugs make me wonder about fuel. There is no dripping of gas until I crank some. I'll try some of your ideas. Since there seemed to be spark and fuel, didn't know how to figure out which is the problem. Tractor is at hobby farm some won't be able to experiment until next weekend.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 11-01-2009 09:51:14 24.125.26.10 739290 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 11-01-2009 09:15:14   A few comments..... Plugs are supposed to be dry. If they are wet, as we said, you flooded it. And, if you flooded it & they dried out, you're not going to see the deposits left by the additives in the gas. Gas dripping out of the carb means you're cranking it too long and/or using too much choke. Use starting fluid. Post back w/ results or more questions. 50 Tips   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob Nelson 11-01-2009 10:27:38 76.113.226.72 739292 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bruce (VA), 11-01-2009 09:51:14   Thanks for your help Bruce. I've printed out your instructions and purchased a multi-meter. Also made myself an alligator clip wire.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 11-01-2009 14:01:25 24.125.26.10 739315 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 11-01-2009 10:27:38   You're welcome. Glad to help.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Den N Ms 11-01-2009 08:09:32 72.155.221.238 739284 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   Bob,You say,Do you guys think new ignition parts will do the job? Well if it has not had a new set of points,condenser and spark plugs in 15 years.Yes I think new ignition parts just might fix it right up.It couldn't hurt it,as you are having weak spark.Get the spark to jump a 1/4" gap then it will run.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dave 2N 11-01-2009 04:18:39 74.32.144.177 739267 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   I looked at you post title and saw replies by three of the best in the business: soundguy, bruce and ZANE. So, I says to myself, what business do I have trying to add anything at all to this post? Anyway, my usually great running 2N takes a snit about something once a year and starts hard. Good fuel flow, good spark, charging but cranking slowly. Clean the cable ends and the terminals, check all connections, still starting hard. Check the plugs; they're kind of fouled. New plugs, starts a little better but I've noticed with my particlular 2N if the battery gets down at all and spins things too slowly, it starts hard because of flooding. So--about an hour of the charger and the battery and we're back in business. Anyone ever heard of this? Does it make sense?   [Reply]   [No Email]
soundguy 11-01-2009 08:25:17 71.55.203.208 739285 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Dave 2N, 11-01-2009 04:18:39   after a flooding situation.. new plugs should pretty much take care of the spark /foul issue.. the bat on the charger is always good... cuz if the bat is low.. starter drags.. realized dynamic compression is lower. and spark is weaker. none of them are good. soundguy   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bruce (VA) 11-01-2009 05:00:00 24.125.26.10 739269 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Dave 2N, 11-01-2009 04:18:39   ".....I've noticed with my particlular 2N if the battery gets down at all and spins things too slowly, it starts hard because of flooding. So--about an hour of the charger and the battery and we're back in business. Anyone ever heard of this? Does it make sense? " Yep, it makes perfectly good sense. The cause of the hard starting is a weak spark. The cause of the weak spark is a dragging starter, weak battery, poor grounds (as in the starter to the block) or a combination of all 3. You need a strong battery to turn the starter AND fire the plugs. If the battery gets discharged and/or as soon as that starter circuit gets too much resistance (dragging starter or poor grounds) you lose current needed to fire the plugs. Which is one of the arguments for 12v. Twice the voltage will overcome some of those problems.....for a little while! 50 Tips   [Reply]   [Send Email]
soundguy 10-31-2009 22:06:41 71.55.203.208 739258 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   I agree with bruce. when it stopped running, the first thing you should have done was decide if it was fuel or spark.. and go from there.. instead of systematically rebuilding the fuel and ignition system.. for one.. shotgun rebuilding is expensive.. and doesn't narrow down the original problem..even though you may be spending 100-200 $ to get her to run.. soundguy   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bruce (VA) 10-31-2009 19:05:42 24.125.26.10 739248 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   There are two schools of thought when it comes to getting a non-running tractor to start. One way is to just start replacing every part you can get to until it starts or you run out of money. The other way is to take a step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. The tractor wouldn't start, so you rebuilt the carb & now will be replacing most of the ignition system. You still do not know if it's a spark or fuel problem. First -- Check the free stuff Second -- Check the cheap stuff Third -- Check the expensive stuff I might not be capable of telling you why your tractor isn’t running, but I sure can tell you how to figure it out for yourself. Because it's free, follow Dunk's advice: replace the plugs. If you flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in lacquer thinner. If that doesn't work, then stop throwing parts at it until you figure out if you have a spark or fuel problem. It is important for you to tell us if your tractor has a 6 volt or 12 volt electrical system. The troubleshooting is different based upon the configuration of your engine. There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least 3/16” ( ¼” is better) and a 7/16 box end wrench. And, you really do need a working ammeter. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel. First, check for fuel. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem. So, next, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the ammeter doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it dip? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn’t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to do it. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air, so that's why you need to use a spark plug. Or, a store bought plug checker. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air crates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. There are other good ways to check for fuel & spark, but these ways work for me. 50 Tips   [Reply]   [Send Email]
ZANE 10-31-2009 18:59:21 64.12.116.20 739243 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   Try shooting a big shot of starting fluid down the intake. If it starts on that it is a fuel problem if not it is ignition. Zane   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dunk 10-31-2009 17:47:56 71.86.100.241 739234 Report to Moderator	Re: 9N won't start in reply to Bob Nelson, 10-31-2009 17:43:37   You may have just gassed (flooded) the plugs. Take them out and heat the sparky ends good with a propane hand torch, and try it again.   [Reply]   [No Email]