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Lewis 07-23-2005 18:25:55 64.85.214.55 508356 Report to Moderator	After installing a new coil and wireing harness, I went out to try my 50 8n and it still stalled and quit after just a little while. I looked closer at the wireing and found that the little wire going from the coil to the distributer was against the manifold and scorched enough to cause problems. After letting the engine cool, I replaced the wire and noticed that the coil was hot to the touch, even a little warmer than the manifold. Is the coil supposed to get hot, or is it fried? Also, what exactly are points? I know they're part of the distributor, but don't know exactly what people are refering to by 'points'. Is it obvious when they need to be replaced? What to look for? After replacing the wire, the tractor ran great for about an hour then quit. Thanks. [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tom-NJ 07-24-2005 08:26:16 71.1.168.44 508420 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-23-2005 18:25:55   Might be simpler to determind what is missing causing it not to run.Check the spark by removing the distributor cap,lay the cap end of the coil wire next to ground 3/8 inch or so, then with the points closed break them ( a small hook works well ) you should get agood strong blue spark. If that is ok, check the fuel supply by spraying a small amount of starting fluid in the carb. that should check the fuel system. Good luck....   [Reply]   [No Email]
lewis 07-23-2005 21:45:31 64.85.215.176 508392 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-23-2005 18:25:55   6 volt   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 07-23-2005 19:43:57 172.196.195.186 508373 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-23-2005 18:25:55   Lewis.......the 5-nipple roundcan ignition coil is considered to be much more robust than the squarecan coil used on the 4-nipple frontmount distributor. Iff'n yer coil to distributor was shorting out on yer exhaust manifold as you claim, yes your coil will be HOTTER than normal. Howsomevers, just like headlights, ignition coils ARE HOT because all that electrical stuff hassta do sumptin. Iff'n it ain't sparkin' then its heatin'. You've just never had the ocassion to touch your roundcan coil before. Ignition points are in the base of your distributor underneath the rotor that connects to the sparkie nipples. Have someone show you how to replace points. It don't matter, Chevy or Ford, points are points. Until you gitt into modern computer controled anti-smog fuel-injected engines. Points gap for the 5-nipple sidemount distributor is 0.025" or 55deg dwell. (dwell is modern meter-way to determine what the points gap is).........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Mikee 07-23-2005 18:32:18 24.247.203.210 508361 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-23-2005 18:25:55   Sounds like you are missing your resistor. Current flow from the switch should go thru the resistor before going to the coil. The coil was never meant to get full battery voltage. As to the coil, it can onl take so much even new. Fix the wiring, and try it. You may need to replace the coil again.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 07-23-2005 19:28:28 172.196.195.186 508371 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Mikee, 07-23-2005 18:32:18   Sorry Mikee.........ONLY the squarecan 4-nipple frontmount distributor reqires the MANDINTORY "infamous ballast resistor". Lewis is talking about the 5-nipple sidemount distributor with the roundcan ignition coil. It DOES NOT use an ignition resistor. Your description is quite right for the frontmount ignition system; unfortunately Lewis wasn't very clear in defining his 50 8N as being a sidemount. ONLY the sidemount has a wire between the roundcan ignition coil and the 5-nipple distributor.........respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob 07-23-2005 21:07:35 64.21.249.40 508382 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-23-2005 19:28:28   Dell, Am I missing something, or did he ever state whether it was original 6 Volt, or a 12 Volt conversion???   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 07-23-2005 21:59:06 172.197.230.96 508394 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Bob, 07-23-2005 21:07:35   Bob.........years of "mind reading" has trained me to be very observant as I immediately identified Lewis's 8N as a 5-nipple sidemount ignition system because he mentioned a wire between the coil and distributor even though he didn't identify it as such. The 4-nipple frontmount doesn't have that wire because it is the springy-thingy underneath the squarecan frontmount ignition coil. Ergo...the 6v sidemount doesn't come from the factory with any ignition resistors. Howsomevers; yer correct, iff'n the sidemount ignition had been converted to 12 volts, it could have been the el-cheepo 12-to-6v converting resistor scheme instead of the better and slightly more expensive real 12volt roundcan ignition coil scheme with NO resistor. I missed that..........Dell   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Lewis 07-23-2005 20:35:24 64.85.214.55 508380 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-23-2005 19:28:28   Yes it is a side mount dist., I'll have to be more specific in the future. Glad to hear I don't have a resistor, couldn't find it in the I&T manual or on the tractor. Will new points solve the problem of stalling out after about an hour, or do I still have coil trouble? Someone said they get a bad one out of the box occasionally. Thanks for the help everyone. While I've learned a lot about this tractor, I'm still no mechanic by a long shot.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
BillM (OH) 07-23-2005 22:14:36 172.142.148.76 508396 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-23-2005 20:35:24   If it runs OK for any time at all, it's not the points. Sounds like a cooked coil. If it starts after the coil cools off for a few hours, then that would prove it's a bad coil.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Dell (WA) 07-23-2005 22:54:08 172.197.230.96 508397 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to BillM (OH), 07-23-2005 22:14:36   Lewis.........I'm with Bill on this question. 1-hr of running time is typical "bad coil" runtime. Yes, occasionally, roundcan ignition coils are "bad" outta the box. Remember, new roundcan ignition coils are labled (+) & (-); the rule is (+) to (+). Your tractor came from the factory battery "positive ground", therefore connect the coil (+) to the ignition points which are "positive ground". Connect the coil (-) to the battery (-) thru the ignition switch. Incorrect coil to battery polarity can cost you upto -40% sparkies loss........Dell   [Reply]   [Send Email]
lewis 07-24-2005 07:11:18 64.85.220.102 508411 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-23-2005 22:54:08   OK, now I'm confused. It's the + cable from the battery that goes to the solenoid and then to the rest of the system. So with + to + being the rule, wouldn't the + side of the coil go toward the battery?   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 07-24-2005 08:18:46 172.191.231.59 508418 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to lewis, 07-24-2005 07:11:18   Lewis..........I said yer tractor came from the FACTORY with "positive ground" for many obscure technical reasons. Many un-knowing battery replacers install their 6-volt battery with "negative ground" (or positive to the starter solenoid) because they're conditioned by their 12v alternator automobile system which DEMANDS negative ground or the solidstate guttz quit working and let the smoke out. You do know all electrical stuff runs on smoke don't you? You doubt? Let the smoke out and they quit working. (grin). Your N's electrical system will work just fine with negative ground IFF the genny and voltage regulator have been properly polarized for negative ground. Roundcan ignition coil with seperate (+) & (-) terminals allow you to match the battery polarity installation. Just be aware. And the rule is still the same (+) to (+). Me? I'd re-install the 6-volt battery correctly for POSITIVE GROUND (flat braid ground strap) and re-polarize the genny/voltage regulator to match the battery polarity. Its a good practice to re-polarize everytime you re-move/install yer battery. You can re-polarize anytime you feel the need, correctly done, doesn't hurt a thing. To re-polarize the 8N's electrical stuff, simply "arc-spark" the two adjacent BATT & ARM terminals on the squarecan voltage regulator underneath yer oilpressure gauge. The BATT & ARM terminals have HEAVY yellow wire connected to them. Ignore the 2-skinny black wire terminals. I use a screwdriver blade to "arc-spark" the BATT & ARM terminals. That is all there is to it; simple, eh? Oh yeah, watch yer ampmeter after you start yer engine after re-polarization. Traditionally, ammeters read (+) when charging the battery. Positive or negative ground, don't matter. (+) for charging the battery. Iff'n the meter reads (-) when yer charging, then simply reverse the ampmeter wires. Doesn't hurt the ampmeter to read backwards, just musses over yer eyeballs.........HTH, Dell   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Lewis 07-24-2005 14:56:55 64.85.216.225 508446 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-24-2005 08:18:46   OK, putting it back to original does seem best. After getting my magnifying glass out, a closer look at the wireing diagram in the manual does show a 'positive ground'. I turned the battery and the coil around and double checked my new wireing harness. When I installed the new harness, I noticed the color scheme did not match the old wireing or the discription in the manual. It's a part no. 8N14401C. I changed everything over one connection at a time keeping a close eye on the wireing diagram in the manual and am pretty confident that all the wires are going to the proper places. It did run about an hour yesterday so can't be very much wrong, right? The only questionable thing is that the manual shows a 'terminal block' near the switch and ammeter which I don't have. What's left of it is broken and rusted from long ago. Someone bypassed it like this... The wire comming from the coil goes directly to the switch, from the switch to the right post of the ammeter, (looking at it from the front of the tractor). From that same ammeter post, there is a larger wire going to the post on the side of the regulator. From the other ammeter post, a large wire goes to the same post on the solenoid that the battery cable is attached to. I've had this tractor about 4 years and until this summer haven't had any trouble with the wireing. Now, about this polarizing,, you said to 'arc spark' the BATT & ARM terminals on the regulator. Does sound simple, but I'm not sure wich terminals these are. Looking at the regulator from the front of the tractor, there is a small white wire coming from the top of the generator to the top left post. A big red wire coming from the back of the generator to the top right post. A big yellow wire coming from the ammeter to the post on the lower right side. A small black wire coming from the top of the generator to a post on the bottom of the regulator. Of the two wires on top of the generator, the white one is closest to the engine. I haven't yet re-attached the battery cables. So, which terminals do I arc across? Do I do this while the tractor is running, or just after I re-attach the battery cables? Hope I've given you enough information, I REALLY want to get this fixed. Thanks.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 07-24-2005 19:43:21 172.195.140.94 508480 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-24-2005 14:56:55   Lewis.........generally speaking, when you briefly connect a high power battery to ground, you will create an arc or spark ...ie... arc-spark. This is essentually what you are doing when you "re-polarize" yer genny/voltage regulator. You briefly connect the heavy BATT-ERY wire (yellow) to the heavy ARM-ATURE wire (red) terminal. You will draw a spark; it can "scare" the neubie; so I use the term "arc-spark" to keep from having to constantly explain to the electrically challenged that he did NOTHING WRONG. It is supposted to spark. Understand? And yes, re-polarize ONLY when engine is OFF. And NO, do NOT mucka'round with the skinny white wire and skinny black wire. Leave'm alone. The black and white wires are your ground and field wires to the genny. New electrical terminal block p/n A8NN-14448, $10 (cheap). Gittcha 1 before you short out yer wiring harness and haffta replace it again.........Dell   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Lewis 07-24-2005 22:03:00 64.85.215.85 508493 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-24-2005 19:43:21   Thanks again Dell, I'll get a new terminal block before I hook the battery up to it and do the re-polarizing thing. After a little further study in my manual, the two points I'm going for are on the upper right and lower right side of the regulator, red and yellow. Bill, this is the way it's shown in the manual, mayhap you should check yours! Just kidding, I'd never presume to tell you guys anything about it after you've been so much help. Thanks, and I'll let you know how it turns out after I track down a terminal block.   [Reply]   [No Email]
BillM (OH) 07-24-2005 18:37:40 172.168.194.125 508466 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Lewis, 07-24-2005 14:56:55   Well, the two fat wires are the ARM & BAT (your red and yellow respectively, but they are side by side on my VR and I don't know what to tell you now......   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Mikee 07-23-2005 20:25:26 24.247.203.210 508378 Report to Moderator	Re: hot coil,,, points? in reply to Dell (WA), 07-23-2005 19:28:28   Dell, Yup I missed that comment about "coil to distribtor". Has to be a sidemount. Got to slow down on my reading. Mikee   [Reply]   [No Email]