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Mark Garcia 03-23-2005 05:40:22 64.12.117.10 489261 Report to Moderator	We see more and more people switching from 6 Volt to 12 Volt on their N Series Tractors. Can someone tell me the advantages on why this would be done while restoring a tractor or after restoration? Thanks again... [Reply]   [No Email]
Tom in MS 03-23-2005 15:31:11 68.222.127.43 489379 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   None, just bangs up and tears up your bendix and flywheel ring gear.......If the tractor is tuned right and the engine is in good shape the 6V will work forever......   [Reply]   [No Email]
12 volt Mel 03-23-2005 13:38:57 4.156.3.60 489340 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   Dell and others opened my eyes that by pointing out that by converting to 12 volt you will save money by not haveing to buy "Block heaters", "Oil heaters","Battery heaters" or even a lower hose heater, nor will you ever have to take your battery in the house on cold,cold nights "PLUS"- 12 volt is so much more forgiveing with all that "Clean,Tight,and Bright" stuff. That might be your best bet! HTH Mel   [Reply]   [No Email]
8NKY 03-23-2005 12:55:13 199.174.0.113 489337 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   I will agree with Dell to A POINT, you do not hear about successful conversions because: they are successful! Now being a card carryin shadetree and proud of it, my conversion has NEVER given one iota of trouble. It was converted because I wanted to use 12 volt accessories; sprayer, winch, ect. and I wanted good bright lights. Fact is a few weeks back I used it to jump start the old farm truck instead of getting tools to remove the battery and having to wait for it to charge up. Having said all that. In some cases it is just a bandaid for other problems that will have to be addressed sooner or later. Bottom line... 6 volt is fine, for the person wanting to convert they have reasons, valid to them, for wanting 12 volt. Which by the way IS the only one that counts.   [Reply]   [No Email]
SteveB(wi) 03-23-2005 10:35:30 216.56.88.30 489323 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   When your tractor sits for months out on your recreational land which is a 6+ hour drive from home, is 2 miles from the nearest electrical outlet, 40 miles from an auto parts store, you have a taiwan socket set and 2 bent screwdrivers for tools, 12V looks pretty good. Jump it W/the truck or swap batteries, alt goes you can get one at most parts houses or junkyard same day reasonable price. The fact is many of these tractors now only see occasional use and are not everyday workhorses. It just makes life much easier to repair or jump them with 12V. Our '46 2N in town where I have everything I need and can wait for parts is 6V, the 8N on the property as described is 12V. I keep a spare alt at the farm for the tractor or the crawler. Even at home I have 3 used GM alternators in stock for my plow truck.   [Reply]   [No Email]
OH Boy 03-23-2005 10:31:39 65.143.105.79 489322 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   This might be a nitpicky sort of comment but,you used that magic word - 'Restoration'. 'Restoration' would hardly call for converting to 12V. In fact it would require the opposite, change back to 6V if someone had already converted it. This topic comes up constantly and while I doubt there is anyone who could not dream up a valid reason to convert to 12 volts (if the right circumstances were in place) most of the group here seems to be pretty content with their 6V systems. My tractor runs very nicely with the 6V system.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Rlach 03-23-2005 10:14:54 69.159.143.65 489320 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   What are the advantages of using 12 V+electronic ignition in cars ? Would you prefer to switch back to 6 Volts and breaker points ? Why Harry Ferguson switched his TEA-20 and TO-30 to 12 Volts ? Could you imagine Sir Hilary with a 9N front mount 6 V in South Pole expedition ? Rlach   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 03-23-2005 10:51:56 159.169.223.252 489326 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Rlach, 03-23-2005 10:14:54   A 250 hp overhead valve V-8 12:1 compression ratio engine is not a 23 hp flathead four cylinder 8:1 compression ratio tractor engine. Do not compare apples to oranges. If you want to make a valid comparison, try the 4 cylinder flathead A-Model Ford engine at, I think, 45 hp. It also had points & a 6V system.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Rlach 03-23-2005 17:02:28 69.159.129.172 489406 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Bruce (VA), 03-23-2005 10:51:56   While Harry Ferguson introduced in 1951, 12 Volts system for the TEA-20 and TO-30, Ford was still using 6 Volts system and continued up to 1964 in gas engine in 2000 and 4000 4 cyl series. I call this poor engineering and it explains Fergy success compared to the poor sale performances of Dearborn Wise kids. Go yourself to Fergy board and do statistics of complains concerning their ignition system compared to those of N board : orange vs lemon ? Rlach   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 03-23-2005 09:27:38 172.164.234.19 489311 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   Mark.........yes, this great N-Board has been seeing alotta posts on PROBLEMS with the 6 to 12v conversion. You NEVER hear about "successful" conversions. My analysis is theres alotta electrically challenged hamm-handed shadetree mechanics that can't read instructions so they come to where really knowledgeable people will try to correct their muck-ups. The reason most un-knowledgeable people want to convert to 12v is because good ol'Billy-Bob down at the local spittin-n-whittlin' club sez its tha' thang ta-doo while he takes 'nutter swigg of barley-pops and everyone nodds in agreement. Yep, thang ta-doo. My take; everyone should ask the question why 6v? 6v was the smallest & cheapest battery system that could reliably turn and start an engine back in the development of the electric starter by Cadilac in 1912. Today, everyone is used to the whizz of modern 12v sewing-machine starter motors and find the sloooww rour...rour...rump of the N's 6v starter motor SCARY. Then there's the "band-aide" effect of 12v on a 6v starter motor for starting a worn-out low compression motor by really whizzin'itt!!! And NO, 12v on a 6v starter motor doesn't hurt it for the VERY SHORT TIME it takes to start yer whizzed N-Engine..........respectfully, Dell a 12v advocate for the right reasons That said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6v 52 8N, and I know how to do it right the first time. Infact I know 8-ways to do it and they all work. Remember the 6v MANTRA: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight" and don't be fer usin' enny of them thar wimpy ferrin made battery cables. Use 'arry chested 'murricum made one-ought (1/0) thick as yer thumb battery cables.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Willy Shoemaker 03-23-2005 13:40:31 68.67.201.165 489341 Report to Moderator	Hey Dell in reply to Dell (WA), 03-23-2005 09:27:38   Since I was able to help you out so much with the steering gearbox information. Could you help me out. Could you tell me the 8 ways that you know how to convert from 6V to 12V. I'd love to know a few of them. We electrically challenged hamm-handed shadetree mechanics that can't read instructions would love to learn some of this stuff so we wouldn't haffta ask you to fix our conversions all the time. Thanks so much, Willy S.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA) 03-23-2005 15:29:50 172.196.40.35 489375 Report to Moderator	Re: Hey Dell in reply to Willy Shoemaker, 03-23-2005 13:40:31   Willy.........I'll e-mail'em but I won't publish'em in the OPEN forum 'cuz the last time I did that, cupple them-tharr electrically challenged shadetree mechanics that weren't even involved in the original discussion but were reading the mail, figgered iff'n 1-way was good, then 2-ways was better. Sorry, it don't work that way bubba. Kirchhoff's Law still rules.........respectfully, Dell who knows 8-ways to SUCCESSFULLY convert to 12-volts and I fergitt how manyways to un-successfully convert   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Willy Shoemaker 03-23-2005 16:17:35 68.67.201.165 489388 Report to Moderator	Email Em in reply to Dell (WA), 03-23-2005 15:29:50   Send 'em to me. Thanks, Willy S.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
MikeT 03-23-2005 09:08:48 70.240.211.27 489304 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   Well, you only asked for advantages, so here is how I see it: 1) Generally easier to start when it's cold 2) No voltage regulator to tinker with 3) No ballast resistors necessary (W/12V coil) 4) Alternators less troublesome than generators 5) 12V batts generally easier to find than 6V (last time I checked my Wal-Mart had none) 6) 12V lights easier to find 7) generally less trouble with btry/starter connections If you do this, then I suggest you get a new keyed 20 amp starter switch with an ACC terminal. Hook the excitor terminal (P1) on the alternator directly up to the ACC terminal on the switch. No diode or marker lamp require this way. Also get the right kind of starter solonoid so you can use the regular starter button as Ford intended (safety issue).   [Reply]   [No Email]
Rob 03-23-2005 09:17:38 63.245.133.66 489306 Report to Moderator	I can see #3 as an advantage to most guys but in reply to MikeT, 03-23-2005 09:08:48   none of the others would advantage me. Well, #6 lights, you can get brighter lights but I don"t operate at night. #1... but I don"t run it under 20-degrees anyway. That"s too cold to operate, far as I"m concerned. I hope Wal-Mart isn"t the only store in your town.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Rob 03-23-2005 09:05:22 63.245.133.66 489302 Report to Moderator	I like 12v so I can run an 8-track tape player. in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   If I ran at night I might need bright lights and the bright ones are 12v.   [Reply]   [No Email]
hvw 03-23-2005 08:37:29 24.143.27.35 489296 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   My 8N came with no wiring, regulator, generator bad, etc so I was free to either buy 6V parts or just convert. In my case points and condensers were a constant aggravation particularly in wet weather after the tractor sat awhile. Even though I prefer to keep things original I went ahead and put in a Genessee 12V system with electronic ignition for about the same money as 6V would've cost. Works perfect. I couldn't be more satisfied. Probably going to do the same thing in this #$&%! Volkswagen we're fixing up.   [Reply]   [No Email]
cargocult 03-23-2005 07:27:06 4.129.87.88 489282 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   After many years of trouble, I finally bit the bullet and replaced the whole system! As a certified Hater Of Change, it was a hard thing to do, but I'm very happy! (Saved the old stuffs, so it could be put back to original in the future) Also put in the Newfangled Electronic Ignition, which is the best thing since Free Beer! Now, it starts INSTANTLY! (Unless I forget to turn on the fuel, hehehe) I had much troubles with the points, and the tractor kept dying at the most inopportune times! (don't they all??) Again, I don't recommed that everybody do this thing, but it sure makes the tractor more useful! And I saved the old stuffs, so it can get put back original, if somebody in the future decides to make a museum piece outta it! Also put one of them-there "auto-wheel" things on the steering wheel. It keeps the black stuff from getting on my hands!   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Rob 03-23-2005 09:22:20 63.245.133.66 489308 Report to Moderator	Don't that guy want his keg back? in reply to cargocult , 03-23-2005 07:27:06     [Reply]   [No Email]
cargocult 03-23-2005 09:52:43 4.129.87.88 489315 Report to Moderator	Re: Don't that guy want his keg back? in reply to Rob, 03-23-2005 09:22:20   Naw..I sold it on ebay for many $$. It was a Hamm's Keg, and they don't make Hamm's beer anymore..somebody p***ed in the Sky Blue Waters! Two folks got into a bid war, and bid it up sky-hi! Ebay Rules!!   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Rob 03-23-2005 10:12:23 63.245.133.66 489318 Report to Moderator	Well then you should be buying the beer next time! in reply to cargocult , 03-23-2005 09:52:43     [Reply]   [No Email]
EDDIE8N 03-23-2005 08:24:17 68.82.214.226 489293 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to cargocult , 03-23-2005 07:27:06   cargocult, Just had to say,I love that machete holder. EDDIE8N   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dan 03-23-2005 06:26:55 66.15.112.136 489268 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   Most people switch to 12 volts because their engines start getting tired and compression gets low due to worn out rings. The slow spin of a 6 volt system does not raise compression in the cylinders enough to effectively start the tractor, so the battery wears down or the starter goes south trying to start the tractor. A 12 volt system will spin the engine much faster on startup and give better compression to worn engines and starts the tractor up easier. It is used as a band-aid most of the time because you can convert your tractor to 12 volts for about $100 whereas a full engine rebuild will cost around $1,500. As Bruce said, the rest of the people convert to use 12 volt attachments. Good luck, Dan   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 03-23-2005 06:06:16 159.169.223.252 489264 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Mark Garcia, 03-23-2005 05:40:22   I've often said the only valid reason to convert to 12v is to power auxilary equipment like sprayers. I've thought of another (IMHO) valid reason: your tractor, your money! These tractors are low compression, low hp, and a clean, bright & tight starting circuit w/ correct sized cables a charged battery & tuned engine will start at below zero temps. Many folks will run into a starting problem & "fix" it by converting to 12v, only to find out.....golly, gee whiz.....the starter was bad, poor ground, etc, etc. Getting 6v parts are not a problem. Needing to jump the tractor from a 12v source is not a problem. The fact that the automotive industry went to 12v is not a valid comparison; they also went to 250 hp high compression engines & a 6v starter wouldn't work. Plenty of "reasons" for converting, but, as I said, only two make a lot of sense to me. Now, on the other hand.....a 12v system will indeed start more often on a less than well tuned tractor w/ less than a well maintained starting circuit. But, even w/ 12v, at some point the lack of attention to routine maintance is going to result in it not starting. Lots of folks here will offer their reasons for converting and a few others may share my opinions, so you are probably in for a good read!   [Reply]   [No Email]
Stickler 03-23-2005 15:26:50 142.16.22.18 489372 Report to Moderator	Re: Advantages of 12 Volt Versus 6 Volt for an 8N in reply to Bruce (VA), 03-23-2005 06:06:16   Yep, mine is 12V because I do run at night a lot blowing snow, and like my bright lights front and rear. Also have 12V connection for my sprayer, and also light connections for the 4 ways and turn signals on the tractor and two of the wagons I pull on the highway between my fields. As to starting, when it's -45° out, they all need to be plugged in, no matter what the voltage.   [Reply]   [No Email]