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12 volt kit extra suggestions

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I just received a 12 volt conversion kit for my Ford 9n front distributer. I'm sure there has been a lots of advice on here from previous installers. Before I start this. Can anyone lead me to some good helpfull advice that has already been posted by other's?
The included instructions look a little more detailed than I thought they would be.
Thanks!
 
If she is a 3-wire delco.. just wire the big charge stud to the wire that used to run to your vreg 'bat' connection.. run the #2 wire to the charge stud, and then run the #1 wire thru a 194 marker lamp then to the switched side of your ignition switch.. If you are keeping the 6v square coil, you will need to add another resistor inline with your ballast resistor.. hopefully your kit has that extra resistor.. if you are having specific troubles.. post them. remember.. if going 12v... you will liklely be going negative ground too.

soundguy
 
Soundguy, I just purchased a complete 12V conversion kit for my front mount 9n and can not get it to run after putting everything back together. The original conversion had a round coil feeding the square can coil on top of the distributor. It seemed like a messed up way to install it and I can not find any wiring diagrams that show it done that way. At least it did make the tractor run. I have read almost every post on here and they have been very helpful but I still cant get the Tractor to start and I do have good spark. It was running perfect before the change except it started to loose power and miss real bad until I hot the coil with my hammer and it would run good again for awhile so I assumed my coil was bad. Any suggestions? I am ready to sell it for scrap iron very soon.
 
(quoted from post at 23:27:51 07/23/08) Soundguy, I just purchased a complete 12V conversion kit for my front mount 9n and can not get it to run after putting everything back together. The original conversion had a round coil feeding the square can coil on top of the distributor. It seemed like a messed up way to install it and I can not find any wiring diagrams that show it done that way. At least it did make the tractor run. I have read almost every post on here and they have been very helpful but I still cant get the Tractor to start and I do have good spark. It was running perfect before the change except it started to loose power and miss real bad until I hot the coil with my hammer and it would run good again for awhile so I assumed my coil was bad. Any suggestions? I am ready to sell it for scrap iron very soon.
Click to expand...

How much?

Are you in NW GA?

These machines work VERY well as designed, with the up keep they need.

Absolutely no need to go space age on them!!!

Need to learn what makes them tick as they were made.

That electronic stuff is crazy, especially on a front mount.
 
I am in upper michigan dunk. The cost of gas to drive up here and back down south might be worht more than the tractor is worth. I paid $3,500 for it last fall and plowed snow all winter with it and did lots of yard/driveway work with it this spring until it almost instantly started to run rough and loose power. I have worked on lots of cars as a kid and would consider myself a backyard mechanic and this front mount distributer is driving me crazy. I think I have changed every electronic part on this thing except for the original ignition/resistor block. It cranks fine, now has good spark after changing the points and condenser and the best I have gotten out of it is a small backfire while using starting fluid. I was just joking about selling it for scrap metal, I have only owned the tractor for less than a year but I think I already like it more than I liked my wife of 16 years :)
 
Hammer guy........ah yes, the ol' BFH school of maintenance satisfaction. (grin)

You write....."did lots of yard/driveway work with it this spring until it almost instantly started to run rough and loose power".......yep, typical weak sparkies caused by BAD IGNITION SWITCH. The internal gutts gitt heated up and suddenly weak sparkies. You doubt? You can use an alligator clippy test wire to by-pass yer ignition switch. But I don't even bother ennymores.

You can also read the volts at yer squarecan top terminal to chassis ground, engine OFF. Could be either 12-volts of yer battery conversion when points are OPEN. ...or... about 3-volts when points are CLOSED, this is caused by yer "infamous ballast resistor" doing its thing.

This is important, points CLOSED. How do you tell yer points are closed? ROLL yer tractor by pushing on them BIG levers called ag-bar tires. Simple, ea?

Iff'n all you gitt is 12-volts battery, points are open, Does NOT tell you condition of ignition switch or infamous ballast resistor. Iff'n you gitt about 4-volts, BURNED ignition points, replace them. (gap = 0.015") Simple, eh?

Iff'n you read about 2-volts, guess what? Yer weaksister ignition switch is BAD. Its the LAW!!! Don't argue, change it. $15 (cheap) Iff'n you don't have an el-cheapo voltmeter from yer local hardware store, GITT-ONE. $15 (el-cheapo) .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
Dell, thanks for the awesome reply. I have read many of your older posts on this forum and have learned more in the past week about this tractor than I ever thought possilbe. Your knowledge has been impressive to say the least. Ok, now for scoop. I have a good digital voltage tester I bought for some reason that I cant remember. I think it was for testing home electrical circuts. I am getting 12 volts everywhere I test basically except when I turn the key off I have a slight negative reading at the coil top. I have changed the points as well as my first step the obvious spark plugs. I was wondering how I could could get the points to close, great idea except the tractor isnt going to roll with a bucket in the front and rear blade on the ground in the back. I will just jack up the rear end of the tractor and spin the tires. As I said in the earlier post the tractor would run good when I hit the previous coil with a hammer. I wanted to replace the coil only but I could not find one with a top post and a spark plug wire lead comming out of the side of the square can to another round coil. I will try the electrical test you posted and see what I get. Thanks tons.
 
(quoted from post at 02:37:27 07/24/08) Dell, thanks for the awesome reply. I have read many of your older posts on this forum and have learned more in the past week about this tractor than I ever thought possilbe. Your knowledge has been impressive to say the least. Ok, now for scoop. I have a good digital voltage tester I bought for some reason that I cant remember. I think it was for testing home electrical circuts. I am getting 12 volts everywhere I test basically except when I turn the key off I have a slight negative reading at the coil top. I have changed the points as well as my first step the obvious spark plugs. I was wondering how I could could get the points to close, great idea except the tractor isnt going to roll with a bucket in the front and rear blade on the ground in the back. I will just jack up the rear end of the tractor and spin the tires. As I said in the earlier post the tractor would run good when I hit the previous coil with a hammer. I wanted to replace the coil only but I could not find one with a top post and a spark plug wire lead comming out of the side of the square can to another round coil. I will try the electrical test you posted and see what I get. Thanks tons.
Click to expand...

Now that I have sobered up some....

I see that you may be on the right track.

It is sounding like you may need to just stretch the pigtail on the bottom of the coil, or the other tang there.

Here is a "Hobo's how to" on the gutted coil, to round can.

http://www.theviperr.com/hobo_dnn/H...N/Engine/CoilConversion/tabid/69/Default.aspx
 
It's actually fairly common to 'gut' a front mount square coil, and merely used it as a 'place holder', and instead wire in a round coil to do all the work.

Post back with what you have NOW. Are you running the round can coil /square can conversion.. or did you swap to a real/new square coil?

How are you checking spark?

soundguy
 
SG, HOw can you gut the square can coil? I didnt see any screws or any way to open the can up, it looked like a sealed unit. Right now I am using the new 12v square can coil I got with my conversion kit. I am checking spark by removing the spark plug from the hole and laying it and grounding the plug on the head. There is lots of blue snot (as dell refers) at the end of the plug, especially after I replaced the points.
 
Ok, I also got the 12 volt coil by the way. In reading over the instructions (which are pretty vague) I noticed that it says on #13 something about "If manual excitation of the alternator is necessary, momentarily feed battery power to the #1 terminal in the plug using a jumper wire attached to the alternator battery stud. WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT HERE???
Thanks in advance
 
Some of the square cans are rivited together, especially if a metal can.. some are plastic top and epoxy potted.. those are harder to get into.. but a hacksaw usually does the trick. Onc ethe top is off, you just dig the guts out till you are left with an empty can that has 2 connections on the bottom.. one is the little pig tail wire.. You solder a line to it, and then solder the other end of that line to the underside of the screw terminal in the top cap... When you use a round can coil, you have a wire coming from the key switch to one screw terminal on the round coil, and then the other screw terminal on the round coil will then go to this top terminal on the gutted square coil.. and thus to the points.. as that is wher ethat little pig tail goes.

The other connection inthe bottom of the square coil is the flat tab for high voltage.. you can get a metal core spark plug wire and then solder that wire to the flat tab connection insid ethe hollow square coil, then drill a hole in the top cap, and run that wire out, and then put the appropriate metal end and rubber hat on it to go into the high voltage secondard stantion/nipple on the round can coil...

All there is to it.


If you have a sqaure 12v coil, are you still using the OEM ballast resistor.. in most cases it will work.. etc.

Id you do have blue snot spark.. then start checking fuel if she won't start.. Pull the carb drain plug and see if you can get steady flow of gas into a mayo jar.. look for dirt/water int he jar.. etc.

soundguy
 
Dunk, thanks for the link to Gutting a can coil. At least now I know what the heck was there when I bought the tractor, everybody I talked to thought I was crazy when I said my tractor had 2 coils on it. It seems like buying a new square can 12v coil for $35 is much easier than doing all that gutting and work on the old coil. I probably could have fixed the problem by trying to extend the pigtail spring rather than going overboard and replacing everything. I was also having a problem with my battery not charging too so I figured the new alternator wouldnt hurt either. Oh well the parts are cheap and my labor is free. Now I just have to get it running again.
 
I already posted *EXACTLY* how to do this.. but here is my post again:


If she is a 3-wire delco.. just wire the big charge stud to the wire that used to run to your vreg 'bat' connection.. run the #2 wire to the charge stud, and then run the #1 wire thru a 194 marker lamp then to the switched side of your ignition switch.. If you are keeping the 6v square coil, you will need to add another resistor inline with your ballast resistor.. hopefully your kit has that extra resistor.. if you are having specific troubles.. post them. remember.. if going 12v... you will liklely be going negative ground too.
soundguy



There is a little plug ont he alternator with 2 male spade ends.. one is #1, and the other is #2.. many of us use a 194 marker lamp to make the connection.. though a radio shack 276-1141, or 276-1661 diode will work ( 1N5408 is another diode that will work ).. you hook the striped ( marked) end of the diode to the #1, and the other end to the switched side of the key switch.

still others use a momentary 'doorbell' button, and hook one side to power, and one side to the #1 line.. after starting the tractor.. set rpm to mid level, and then hit the switch for a couple seconds.. amp meter should register a charge.. etc.


soundguy
 
(quoted from post at 11:33:05 07/24/08) Dunk, thanks for the link to Gutting a can coil. At least now I know what the heck was there when I bought the tractor, everybody I talked to thought I was crazy when I said my tractor had 2 coils on it. It seems like buying a new square can 12v coil for $35 is much easier than doing all that gutting and work on the old coil..
Click to expand...

It may appear that way, but there are some very good reasons to consider.

The original coils were designed for 6v positive ground.

That is why I run a 6v, positive ground, one wire, Chevy alternator that I had built for mine 20 something years ago.

I don't know if the 12 volt coils are designed for positive, or negative ground.

Then there is the resistor(s), you need the right amount of resistance on front mount coils, be it 6v, or 12v, to keep from overheating things.

You can buy round can coils that are designed for 12v, negative ground, no resistors.

Those are the reasons for gutting the square coils.
 
The 12v square coils are not really 12v.. you still need to run some resistance in line with them.. the oem ballast resistor usually works out good in these cases.

12v round can coils.. like the NAPA IC14SB are fine to be run with no extra resistance.

soundguy
 
There was a resister that was included in the kit. The directions said "Use if needed" I guess I should use it then huh?
Thanks for the expert advice!!!
 
I would check the voltage on top of the coil, points closed, with the oem ballast resistor in line with the new 12v square coil. if you get 9-10v.. I'd use the oem resistor, and just hang on to that extra resistor..

soundguy
 
Soundguy, In an earlier post by dell he stated you should have around 3 volts at the coil with points closed. In your post it sounds like you want to see 9v to 10v. Am I reading that wrong? Should it be 3 volts or 9 volts on the coil top with points closed?
 
Hammer.......naw, you ain't mucked-up in the head.

The 3-volt reading is for the 6-volt squarecan ignition coil ONLY.

About 9-11 volts is for the NEW 12-volt squarecan ignition coil with "infamous ballast resistor".

Sorry for confuzzion. Ya nebber-noe what squarecan ignition coil is being used.

I personally think the NEW MODERN 12-volt squarecan ignition coil ...AND... the "infamous ballast resistor" together is the way to go on 12-volt conversions to the frontmount engine.

When the 12-volt squarecan coil first appeared some 10-15yrs ago, they were burning out, right and left 'cuz they were designed for 12-volts and 12-volt alternators put out 14.7-volts and vola' melted coil tars and quit running ........Dell
 
2 different situations.. The #'s dell gave are perfect for a 6v coil.. not for a 12v coil.. like you report having.. etc.

soundguy
 
Hey guys, GOTTER RUNNING thanks to all your help. I sprayed the heck outta the carb with cleaner and removed the screws on the carb and blasted cleaner down the holes with a straw AND I removed the second resistor that was supplied with my conversion kit. When I tried to start it I touched it and it was smoking hot so I removed it and tried to start it and she fired. Almost burt down my garage and tractor in the process though cause she back fired through the carb and gas line and somehow it all caught on fire. I do not have the gas tank and cover on at the current time so I was pumping gas down to the carb with a small plastic bottel with a small tip on the end. So anybody out there that is doing that be careful she caught fire in a hurry, good thing it didnt explode or something and I was able to put the fire out. Can anybody tell me why the second resistor got so hot? I still didnt check for the voltage at the coil with the points closed. Should I do that to make sure I dont burn up the coil?
 
(quoted from post at 22:41:26 07/24/08) Hey guys, GOTTER RUNNING thanks to all your help. I sprayed the heck outta the carb with cleaner and removed the screws on the carb and blasted cleaner down the holes with a straw AND I removed the second resistor that was supplied with my conversion kit. When I tried to start it I touched it and it was smoking hot so I removed it and tried to start it and she fired. Almost burt down my garage and tractor in the process though cause she back fired through the carb and gas line and somehow it all caught on fire. I do not have the gas tank and cover on at the current time so I was pumping gas down to the carb with a small plastic bottel with a small tip on the end. So anybody out there that is doing that be careful she caught fire in a hurry, good thing it didnt explode or something and I was able to put the fire out. Can anybody tell me why the second resistor got so hot? I still didnt check for the voltage at the coil with the points closed. Should I do that to make sure I dont burn up the coil?
Click to expand...

Maybe some of these gurus will get you straight.

I understood all of these issues, and made my choice to go with original, all except for my 6v, posi ground, 1 wire, Chevy alternator.

I also contemplated the hulled out square coil, and a 12v round can coil, with no resistor.

Ifn I had a side mount I might just take the plunge, and mount a nice getto blaster, to thump the Grand Ole Opery, WSM Nashville, while I bush hogged.

I guess I'll just suffer with 6v, that just works for me, for decades with very little trouble.
 
Dunk, I would have never guessed there were so many different ways to skin this Ford tractor electrical Cat. There is no such thing as suffering when something works and doesnt give you trouble. As they say a good tractor is like a good woman, if shes cranking, working, doing what she is supposed to and not complaining....just leave it alone.
 
Hammer........all ignition resistors gitt HOT. Its the LAW! As to why yer extra resistor got hot, Incorrect wattage value? Should be 50-WATTS. Resistors come in both resistance values and wattage values. Think about electric light bulbs, they all gitt hot and hotter depending upon their WATTAGE rating. Electronic engineers know how to correctly specify resistors for the circuit they are used in. Many autoparts store don't know shut about resistors.

Removing yer 2nd resistor "upped" yer volts to the coil and now you have sparkies. Yes, you NEED to do the voltage measurement as you have been instructed to do .......Dell, retired Elect Engr.
 
Soundguy/Dell I now have the tractor starting and running ok. It looks like I have between 10 & 11 volts at the top of the coil with the points closed. Is that too much voltage? Will it burn out my points and coil? Should I reinstall the additional resistor that came with my conversion kit, or is the "infamous oem resistor" all I need. Thanks again for all of the help, I couldnt have gotten it going without your help.
 
I think you will be ok. These 12v square coils are a little dicey.. as long as you don't notice points burning.. i think you will be ok.

soundguy
 
Sound guy,
My tractor was running great for about a day or two but last night it kept on running after I turned the key off. (I do have a diode installed per wireing diagrams) it finally died out but I could not start it again. I waited until this morning and it started right up but died after a few minutes and would not start again. Do you have any ideas on this one. I tired a jumper wire on the ignition switch and bypassing the resistor and it didnt help start it. All the electical parts have been replaced now except for the ignition switch and the infamous oem resistor.
 
Thanks SG, I think I will just order a new ignition switch and Block reisitor. Would the ignition switch going bad on the inside cause damage to the points and coil? I will probably order another set of points just to have an extra set and I already have an extra coil so I should be set. Thanks for the reply and help.
 
I guess it could damage them if you turne dthe ignition off.. walked away, and then the key switch shorted out and let power back to the points and coil... probably wouldn't hurt the resistor much.. they either work or don't work as long as the connections are clean.

soundguy
 
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