4020 Clutch Problems and more

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

Well I've got problems. My 4020 has been sitting for over a year due to me not getting out to the property very often. Nothing wrong with it that made it sit up. I cranked it up this weekend. Started right up and engine runs great, but it started blowing oil out from a flywheel cover plate. It looked like a lot of water was in it. I thought it was just water from sitting out but I don't think so. The clutch will not engage. Its like it's frozen. I forced it into first gear and tapped the brakes while holding the clutch down hoping to break the clutch free. This has worked on other tractors I've had. It did not work. Checked the gear oil and there is none on the stick. I think I've got problems.

So what is the likely cause of loosing my gear oil in the flywheel housing? Busted seal? And thoughts on the clutch?

Thanks

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

it is a synchro range transmission.

Tx Jim · Oct 2, 2016

What year model is 4020? If trans oil is in clutch housing it's possible that seal on pto input shaft has failed. You might try let tractor engine run long enough to get to operating temp with clutch pedal disengaged(blocked down).

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

I think it is a 62 or 63. I'll have to double check.

Will replacing that seal require splitting the tractor?

Is the clutch in a synchro range transmission a dry or a wet clutch?

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

I think it is a 62 or 63. I'll have to double check.

Will replacing that seal require splitting the tractor?

Is the clutch in a synchro range transmission a dry or a wet clutch?

tim s · Oct 2, 2016

With out knowing more this is all a guess.. so my guess is a liner is leaking and allowed water into your crank case,,when you started it it forced the oil/water mix out the rear seal..second issue thoughts are the clutch got rusty or a mouse nest got into it and rusted the clutch and levers tight..third issue guess is the load shaft seals were leaking and drained the transmission while it sat there,,and if all of these guesses are correct "yes" you will be splitting the tractor, and Over Hauling the engine,,and yes you should have kept it in out of the weather..

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

(quoted from post at 17:38:07 10/02/16) With out knowing more this is all a guess.. so my guess is a liner is leaking and allowed water into your crank case,,when you started it it forced the oil/water mix out the rear seal..second issue thoughts are the clutch got rusty or a mouse nest got into it and rusted the clutch and levers tight..third issue guess is the load shaft seals were leaking and drained the transmission while it sat there,,and if all of these guesses are correct "yes" you will be splitting the tractor, and Over Hauling the engine,,and yes you should have kept it in out of the weather..

Agree, it should not have been left in the weather.
I don't see the need for an engine overhaul. Engine was overhauled about 8 years ago and runs great. I do see a possible transmission overhauling in the near future. I don't think it was a mouse. The flywheel housing was sealed pretty tight. It was holding all the oil and water. That being said, the water had to get in somewhere. And yes, I think no matter what the issue, I see having to split the tractor.

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

But now you got me thinking....was that gear oil or motor oil that blew out. I checked the motor oil and it looked normal on the dip stick but the oil that blew out was black as coal like diesel motor oil......hmmmm

I could have three seperate issues here.

tim s · Oct 2, 2016

I was wondering if the engine was over full that would help determan some of your issues, water mixed with clutch residue looks very black,, the oil from the transmission will not get into the clutch housing while it's setting, it will all leak out the load shaft seals while setting,, to help you narrow things down a bit..

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

Thanks. I'm thinking you may be right on the engine oil. I think I need to change the engine oil and see what it looks like. The gear oil may just be low, real low, or it may have a leak.

Is there any place / access panel to view the clutch plates?

tomstractorsandtoys · Oct 2, 2016

4020's were all 1964 and newer. A few were built in 1963 but they were considered 1964 models by Deere. Tom

tim s · Oct 2, 2016

No you can't see the plates..and you can stick a longer wire down in the check port and see if there is any oil on it...2-3 gallon puts it off the stick..

TBS · Oct 2, 2016

(quoted from post at 22:47:42 10/02/16) No you can't see the plates..and you can stick a longer wire down in the check port and see if there is any oil on it...2-3 gallon puts it off the stick..

Ok. On this JD, I take it the transmission oil/ gear oil is also used as the hydraulic fluid....correct? There is no seperate hydraulic oil reservoir. I have seen it both ways.

tim s · Oct 2, 2016

Yes one oil and use Deere oil other brands will ruin the brakes..

TBS · Oct 3, 2016

(quoted from post at 00:19:58 10/03/16) Yes one oil and use Deere oil other brands will ruin the brakes..

So here is my plan. I am going to pull the bottom cover off the bell housing and let it drip dry as much as possible. I'm going to change the engine oil filter and oil. I am hoping the oil blew past the rear main seal and did not damage the seal. I am going to change the gear oil and hydraulic filter as well. I am going to spray penetrating oil on the clutch assembly, or as much of it as I can see from the bottom of the bell housing and the side access plate. I am going to strap the clutch peddle down and let it sit for a few days with the penetrating oil.

I'll crank it up and hope for no oil leaks and hope I can force it into 1st gear and using the clutch and brakes I can free up the clutch plates. It will be a few weeks before I can try this.

I know I may be wasting time and some oil changes, but I figure it is a good way to confirm what needs to be done.

tim s · Oct 3, 2016

That is a good plan,, and I will add to the mix..by pass the safety switch and "carefully" start it in gear, 5th would work,,it should start and begin moving,, have it headed out into the open and with the clutch down pump the brakes, the pull of the tractor and the drag of the brakes "could" break it loose,, but think this out well before you start, don't have it headed for the pick up, and start it first in nuetrul to let it warm up a bit..

TBS · Oct 3, 2016

Thanks for all the input Tim. When I get this fixed it will be kept back in the barn. If I have to leave it outside, it will have buckets over the muffler and the breather. Both have rain covers, but water got in somewhere. I'll post the results in a few weeks.

Tx Jim · Oct 3, 2016

Ditto what Tim stated about VERY CAREFULLY starting engine in 5th gear by disabling NS switch.

PS: I doubt seriously that rear seal "will heal itself" if rear seal leaked enough oil to cause problems in clutch housing

TBS · Oct 3, 2016

Yes, I'll be careful starting in gear. I have done it before and I have broke clutches free before by holding the clutch down and tapping the brakes. Did that a few years ago on a Ford 7000.

I've actually been around tractors my whole life, just not real familiar with this 4020. I've had it several years and never had any issues with it. Guess I am about to learn the real mechanics of this one.

On the seal and oil, I am not convinced what has happened. There is a possibility that somehow water got in the bell housing and mixed with old oil and grease and that is what blew out. Might also explain the clutch issue if it has been sitting submerged in water for a while. When I change the motor oil I will be able to determine if there is water in the crankcase and if a water / oil mixture blew out the real seal.

TBS · Oct 3, 2016

Just went back and read through the posts again and saw where Tim mentioned that water mixed with the clutch residue could look like oil and water which goes back to I'm not really sure I have water in the crankcase. I'll now in a few weekends.

tim s · Oct 3, 2016

If the crank case is not over full that kinda makes the engine part looking better, water in the clutch housing could be the cause of the black liquid coming out and the reason for the clutch to be stuck,, and the load seals the reason for the trans oil to be low,, all these things can be thought out in a perspective way...it is just a part of the "Trouble shooting" methods..there are always basic reasons for the things that happen,,and I have seen a lot of them,,but not all of them,,yet...

TBS · Oct 4, 2016

Another question that someone just brought up to me....
If I spray penetrating oil in the clutch assembly and am lucky enough that it works and breaks the clutch fee, will I then have issues with the penetrating oil on the clutch disks and not wanting to grip?

Tx Jim · Oct 4, 2016

I'll suggest to spray clutch/PP assembly with brake cleaner not penetrating oil.

TBS · Oct 4, 2016

That's what I was thinking as well. I'll give it a try.

tim s · Oct 4, 2016

The clutch is gonna suffer no matter what happens till you take it out...if it does break loose it will do light work for a while, but it's not likely it will be real good with out going through it...

fixerupper · Oct 4, 2016

When you drain the engine oil, if no green anti-freeze comes out first and the oil is good and black, not milky your engine probably never had water in it. I'll back up a little. If only a few drops of clear water comes out first some normal condensation might have settled in the oil pan. Probably nothing to worry about. When you loosen the drain plug unscrew it until it is on the last thread and stop and see what drips out before you remove it all the way.

Ragnarok · Oct 5, 2016

I noticed my 'new' 4010 has a rusty interior in the clutch housing....rusty rusty!

Not long after I got the cool old Deere..I had the hood and cowl cover off and gave it all a good solid pressure washing..steering valve and all. When I fired the 4010 up I had water spraying out the timing cover!!

I guess there is a rotten foam 'seal' where the pto rod enters the bell housing..plus I had the pto clutch engaged while I pressure washed...which lifts the linkage rod off the rotten foam seal and leaves a big hole in the clutch housing for water and dirt to run into the bell housing.

As far as the 4020 in question...my guess is that it set outside for a year or so and saw lots of rain and filled-up the clutch housing....was enough engine oil in the clutch housing to make it look like oil....plenty of water to rust-up the clutch...the transmission oil went out the loadshaft seals...and Colonel Mustard did it in the parlor with the lead-pipe!

4020 Clutch Problems and more

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