Author	[Modern View]
tstex 07-25-2012 05:33:45 99.29.117.36 Report to Moderator	Hello to all, Been awhile, but the MT is running fine...you guys have always been a grt sounding board, so here it goes: I have owned a M5400S since the Dec 2005 and it has been great. I used to buy my diesel in four plastic 5-gal containers and go to the fuel depot to buy it, then store them in my garage from the elements [garage was not climate controlled]. I changed the fuel filter a couple of times over the yrs, and it had, I guess, the normal gunk and sediments. About 5-6 yrs ago, I went to a 50gallon drum that is stored in my wooden shed with the tractor [really not climate controlled]. I get it refilled whenever it is 20-30% from empty. I cleaned my fuel sediment bowl yesterday and I was lucky I had an extra fuel filter. The metal top and bottom portion of the filter had a lot of rust on it and the bottom was really full of X. It was also really difficult getting the fuel sediment bowl free because there was some corrosion the top of the fuel shut-off valve head [underneath side] and the large ring that that screws on and off...the corrosion was within the threads and where the rubber o-rings seals the screw ring to the upper body of the shut-off valve. I would assume there was some water in there and that is why the fuel filter rusted. My the hand pump for my 50 gal drum does not have a filter, so should I get one? The drum is not exposed to the sun and the comp said the inside is coated and it should not condensate. I also try to keep my fuel tank, which is plastic, full as possible. Are there any other recommedations you can make to prevent any possibility of water getting into my fuel tank/system? Should I drain my fuel tank or take another approach? Finally, I have not had any issues with the tractor stalling or misfiring from clogged fuel injectors, but I just want to make sure everything I can do to remove water is done, before and during I refuel. Thank you, Tstex [Reply]   [No Email]
Tx Jim 07-26-2012 04:41:42 67.142.163.20 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to Tim S, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   Here's a website that explains the sulfur content of diesel fuel http://www.clean-diesel.org/nonroad.html [Reply]  [No Email]
Morris Krodle 07-25-2012 16:31:45 71.96.139.146 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   Diesel fuel sold at most locations, including Red Dyed Off Road is the same fuel. The red dye is injected when it is loaded on the delivery truck at the Fuel Terminal. Most areas requied LSD (low sulphur diesel) and it"s next to impossible to find HSD because of EPA regulations in certain areas. The western states have more leeway here. [Reply]  [No Email]
Craig C 07-25-2012 11:49:10 98.93.42.116 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   As Tim stated,"buy clean fuel, and keep it clean". It is also clearly marked on some of our older Cat equipment fuel caps. Usually on the big jar top caps you can reach your hand into. We use a large 1qt 2micron hydrosorb filter on all of our off-road and highway diesel tanks on the farm. It also gets filtered again when it comes out of a portable tank going to the field. We also change fuel filters on the tractors every spring when the big horses get oil changes. On a utility that runs the roads during the winter feeding cattle, I change them in the spring and fall. Some will say all of this is overkill, but we typically don't have fuel problems. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 07-25-2012 12:40:59 75.60.211.166 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to Craig C, 07-25-2012 11:49:10   Yes Craig we do the same thing, we just put a new 18,000 gallon fuel tank in when we set our new tank containment system in place. [Reply]  [No Email]
tstex 07-25-2012 09:20:49 99.29.117.36 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   Would incorporating an additive for diesel fuel better at the time the truck comes to fill the 50 gal drum, or add it to my tractors fuel tank each time I pump diesel to refill it...I also try to never let me tank get below the 1/2 line Thanks again guys, tstex [Reply]  [No Email]
Ferd 07-25-2012 09:01:26 50.39.120.213 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   We used to use cans to fill our backhoes and had major problems due to water in the fuel. Now, we will only fuel a diesel if there's a water absorbing fuel filter in the hose between the supply and the machine fuel tank - we use transfer tanks with water absorbing fuel filters. Haven't had a fuel related problem since. Just read an article in one of the construction magazines about how important clean diesel is in the newer engines that have such close tolerances due to new EPA requirements. Lots more fuel related problems now than in older diesels. The article said older engines would typically have 10-20 PSI fuel pressure where newer engines run 30 up to 60,000 PSI. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Aylward 07-25-2012 08:49:27 216.145.134.145 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   I always thought any container for fuel bigger than a can that is mobile should have a filter on it. Every time that container moves it will stir up anything that is inside it. Also, as Frank mentions, any container that has temperature changes WILL get condensation in it. The more humid it is outside or the wider the temperature swings (or both) the more condensation you will get. Also, every time you put fuel from a tank/barrel with a hose on it let a little fuel run out to wash out the nozzle of dirt and water. You would be surprised how much can be hidden in the end of a nozzle. Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
F-I-T 07-25-2012 07:35:47 184.6.240.123 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   >>>My the hand pump for my 50 gal drum does not have a filter, so should I get one?>>> Adding a filter is not a bad idea, but it will probably be better on sediment than on water. Pump a random gallon into a clear glass jug and see what it looks like out of the pump. A couple of wraps of panty hose over the pickup might eliminate all the sediment you have. >>> The drum is not exposed to the sun and the comp said the inside is coated and it should not condensate. >>> Tank most likely has nothing to do with it. Condensation comes from moist air entering the vent, then condensing what moisture there is into rain when temperatures drop. Keeping the storage tank as full as you can helps, too. I carry my fuel in 5 gallon cans, and just the act of filling/carrying/pouring seems to introduce more sediment into the system, especially if I refuel in the wind and dust. Best to keep a spare filter element around just like you did. The water issue is troubling, because you should really be able to see major water problems in your sample. I guess next step is a true water separator, but I think that will be pricey. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 07-25-2012 07:55:01 75.60.211.166 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to F-I-T, 07-25-2012 07:35:47   All the old fuel caps read "Buy clean fuel and Keep it clean" this can be a tough job when using cans, and in the old days that's about all we used..that would be hard to keep up with running a couple 8970's :>),,but not so bad with a couple 720d's [Reply]  [No Email]
Tx Jim 07-25-2012 06:23:44 67.142.163.20 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to Pete1989, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Fit I thought the same as you. Today there's no sulfur content difference between off-road & road fuel. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 07-25-2012 05:55:42 75.60.211.166 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 05:33:45   It seems that when Highway fuel is used in older tractors it causes problems like your having, it is so handy to go the station and get that little bit of fuel when you need it, but it is a bit hard on systems. If you could arrange it try to get "off Road" fuel at a distributor it would be better, our local guy has an older fuel truck setting on the lot just for that. [Reply]  [No Email]
F-I-T 07-25-2012 06:15:53 184.6.240.123 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to Tim S, 07-25-2012 05:55:42   Tim S said: (quoted from post at 05:55:42 07/25/12) It seems that when Highway fuel is used in older tractors it causes problems like your having, it is so handy to go the station and get that little bit of fuel when you need it, but it is a bit hard on systems. If you could arrange it try to get "off Road" fuel at a distributor it would be better, our local guy has an older fuel truck setting on the lot just for that. Boy, I thought the only difference between off-road and highway diesel was the red dye. What's the difference then? It's not the old-time sullfur level, because on the EPA site, I just found this: "Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010." This post was edited by F-I-T at 06:21:23 07/25/12. [Reply]  [No Email]
Tim S 07-25-2012 07:01:09 75.60.211.166 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to F-I-T, 07-25-2012 06:15:53   The road fuel still seems dryer, but it seems that on-road fuel at the different stations are of different consistences,I know the local station here,Citgo,fuel does not agree with my semi, a few times I have gotten it there because I was low and the truck ran like crapp till I got fuel at the big station,Flying-J, I feel that there are different blends going on, and some of them are not good,,and it is mostly "random" so you don't really know what your about to get,,I get good results with what ever the Flying-J uses, and they go through so much daily that it is fresh, the one in our area near Columbus Ohio has 3 tankers dedicated to that on station, that's a lotta fuel...in the past I have had a lot of hobby farmers coming in with throttle shaft leaks,the dryer fuel would swell the shaft o-ring seal and cause it to cut when the throttle worked, supposedly the new o-rings would deal with the new fuel. [Reply]  [No Email]
tstex 07-25-2012 06:52:26 99.29.117.36 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to F-I-T, 07-25-2012 06:15:53   Here is something I leanred re the differences: The two fuels are not the same.....they have similar specs as far as distillation curves, gel temps. and the like, but road diesel is distilled as a product, cleaned of water and filtered down to less than 25 micron particulates. Off road diesel is a blend of on road diesel that did not make spec. and whatever distilled product it will take to get it on spec., it is then filtered down to less than 70 micron particulates and of course red die is added. Now...these products will do very similar jobs in a tractor, older tractors will benefit from the higher sulfur content of off road diesel, while newer tractors have mostly viton seals in the fuel system and they really don't care what type fuel they consume. My goal, regardless of type, is to see what I can do to clean-up my 50-gal drum and take a proactive stance towards introducing any diesel into my tractors fuel system... Again, thank you very much gentlemen, tstex [Reply]  [No Email]
F-I-T 07-25-2012 06:55:33 184.6.240.123 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 06:52:26   I'm not convinced that that is still true, since late 2010. I think that the higher sulfur number of off road is no longer true. "As of September 2007, most on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD.[8] Ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for rural Alaska who transferred in 2010. California has required it since September 1, 2006. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to railroad locomotives, marine, or off road uses. Since December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel have been ULSD. Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010. Railroad locomotive and marine diesel fuel also moved to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and will change to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of non-road, locomotive and marine diesel fuel that allow for 500 ppm diesel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, non-road, locomotive and marine diesel fuel produced and imported will be ULSD." This post was edited by F-I-T at 07:01:12 07/25/12. [Reply]  [No Email]
tstex 07-25-2012 06:15:56 99.29.117.36 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to Tim S, 07-25-2012 05:55:42   I apologize for any confusion...the 50 gal drum is filled with off-road/agri diesel from a local fuel supply company...when I used to get the 5 gal plastic containters filled, I just drove to their fuel dispensing center...so, this is the red-sulfuric diesel, it is just that now I dispense from a 50 gal drum. thx, tstex [Reply]  [No Email]
rustcollector 07-25-2012 11:42:48 174.229.194.182 Report to Moderator	Re: diesel fuel ques in reply to tstex, 07-25-2012 06:15:56   Set your drum on a 1 X 4 on one side. Put the pump in the higher bung or rotate the bung to the high side. Raise the pump suction to about an inch off the bottom of the high side. Then every 100 gallons or so, drain the fuel remaining in the bottom of the drum after the pump quits into a clean, open 5 gallon bucket. Cover the bucket and let it sit for several hours before pouring off the clean diesel. Be prepared to sacrifice 1/2 to 1 gallons of dirty fuel. Add the line filter to the pump! Plastic fuel containers condense less moisture than the same sized metal can because the sides expand and collapse with temperature change drawing in less moisture laden air. You may be getting water from the fuel supplier? [Reply]  [No Email]