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MADDOG 02-24-2005 18:42:22 4.225.233.107 161471 Report to Moderator	I think the 4020 was the #1 tractor John Deere ever built. Best Hp to weight ratio, best enginering, best handling, best driver friendly. (for that time period) Is there ANY model of tractor, of any color that was as all around thumbs up as the one and only 4020?? What does anyone else think??? Maybe the AC D-17? The Farmall 1066?? Ford 5000?? [Reply]   [No Email]
Mike Aylward 02-25-2005 17:46:42 216.146.249.160 161616 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   I wasn't going to weigh in on this but after all the "hubbub" I thought I would. I own two 4020's, one a '64 model and the other a '71 model with factory cab. Both are used hard each and every spring and have never failed to do what I have asked of them. Both are turning around 130 h.p. and have since I have owned them (nothing is ever right from the factory, is it?..:-) They are about as close to "bulletproof" as a tractor can be. I still would have no trouble doing a good day's worth of work with either of them, although the 4440 I have does the bulk of the work anymore, mostly because of the extra power and the comfort level. (It didn't always have extra power- when I got it the 4020's would handle everything it would because it was only turning stock h.p. It is now "enhanced".) My neighbor got a 190 XT when I got my first 4020 because at the time he didn't want to spend the extra $1500 (25 years ago). He has been in the engine and transmission several times and I have overhauled my engine once which is not unheard of in that many years. He has spent way more than I ever have on his tractor and it is worn out but my 4020's still do a day's work. Someone once told me something about a 4020- "you've either got one, had one, or want one"..:-) Both of my 4020's will never leave this place. Mike   [Reply]   [No Email]
720Deere 02-26-2005 04:48:19 70.17.229.58 161665 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Mike Aylward, 02-25-2005 17:46:42   Mike, I am waiting for someone to come on here and tell you that 130 hp is far too much for a 4020 and you are flirting with disaster! However, I believe that with a turbo 130 should work just fine. My uncle bought a 4320 new in 1972 and from day one it turned 132 hp on the dyno. It has about 8500 hrs on it now and the motor is getting tired, but never a moments trouble in all those years. That also is a 404 motor and I believe the tranny is much the same, so you might as well enjoy the extra hp. Deere realized about 8 years too late just how much hp the 4020 should have had originally.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Mike Aylward 02-26-2005 15:03:50 216.146.249.157 161705 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to 720Deere, 02-26-2005 04:48:19   720Deere, both of these tractors have been running at this power level for over 20 years. Both of these tractors are naturally aspirated. I do not "ram and jam" them but use all they have. I keep the oil changed regularly and do all regular maintenance. Some folks can tear up a stock 4020. I use mine but take care of them. Mike   [Reply]   [No Email]
Farmallkid From Ont, 02-25-2005 15:42:26 209.216.154.181 161604 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   The 4020 was and still is a good tractor. I cut wheat stubble for a guy a couple summers ago, he had a 4020, I really liked it, i was kind of iffy at first cause the shifting looked weird. But once i ran it for awhile it was easy. If i had a 4020 and a 10 or a 966, i would have trouble pickin one to drive cause i like them both. 2 of the 4 tractors on my tractor wish list are deere"s. SMTA, 1066---D, 4020. and o course the 4020 would be diesel.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Aces 02-25-2005 07:31:20 4.164.18.176 161528 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   If the 4020 was so allmitty fine how come they had to have a M&W fan and Pan. Then could not haul round bails with the 3 pint with making the 3 point leak. I would take any IH over a JD and a Ferg TO30 over ford n any day o and the 4010 4920 with the fuel tank up front to jel in the winter o o o so fine.   [Reply]   [No Email]
720Deere 02-25-2005 13:31:39 70.17.229.58 161590 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Aces, 02-25-2005 07:31:20   I don't like to play the brand war argument game, but I have one question. If the 806 was so superior to the 4020 then why was it updated with model designation changes at least 3 times in the 8 years that the 4020 was built?   [Reply]   [No Email]
thurlow 02-25-2005 12:46:01 65.255.98.13 161583 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Aces, 02-25-2005 07:31:20   If one wanted to buy a new 90 HP tractor in the '60s, one had a choice of......JD 4020, IH 806, MF 1100, A-C 190XT, Case 930, Ford ???, Oliver 1850, White ???, MM ???; what have I left out??? Not familiar with all brands; all model numbers right????.......be interesting to know production numbers of the above.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-25-2005 08:53:31 66.83.236.250 161541 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Aces, 02-25-2005 07:31:20   They didn't have to have the fan and pan UNLESS someone was to turn them WAY up and/or add a turbo. I have one (with original fan and pan) that has over 14,000 hours on the clock. Hydraulics don't leak down either! And why would the location have a danged thing to do with fuel gelling? Unless your IH was several hundred miles long, and the fuel tank was in a warmer climate than the front end was, it wouldn't make a bit of difference. Your "answer" was a joke.... You can have your choice of tractors. No one else want's 'em....   [Reply]   [No Email]
thurlow 02-25-2005 07:53:31 65.255.98.27 161532 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Aces, 02-25-2005 07:31:20   There have been (and still are) incompetent farmers just as there are people in other professions who are not too bright; however, advertising will only carry a product so far. Ultimately, it's about the quality of the product that drives sales. Those hundreds of thousands of farmers voted with their pocketbooks, whether you're talking about 8Ns, M Farmalls or 4020s. Collectively, they weren't stupid....   [Reply]   [No Email]
105Diesel 02-25-2005 07:52:14 12.216.218.32 161531 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Aces, 02-25-2005 07:31:20   4020's didn't need a M&W oil pan and fan unless they'd been turbocharged within an inch of their lives. As far as lift capacity is concerned, I used a 4020 with a JD 6-row wide 7100 mounted planter with all the attachments, which weighs a hell of a lot more than a round bale, and I never had any 3-point problems, or leakage. No doubt about it, the 4020 was THE tractor of its time, and the price a good one will bring today proves it.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Dean 02-25-2005 05:18:39 198.185.18.207 161505 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   Best all-around tractor? Interesting question. Answer, no doubt depends upon just what it is that one uses it for. The 4020 is no doubt in the running, as is the 730, Farmall M, maybe the AC WD/WD45 but if I were to choose a single model as the best all-around tractor for its era it would have to be the Ford Ns. The 3 point hitch revolutionized farming within 15-20 years and all manufacturers followed suit as soon as they could after the Ferguson patents expired. Sure the Ns were small machines not suitable for heavy tillage but Ford sold almost 450,000 8Ns alone. That number speaks for itself. Second choice: How about the Farmall M? As this is the JD board, I'm expecting many of you to disagree. I do have great respect for the 4020 as well as the 730 and others but sales numbers are very telling. Dean   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-25-2005 05:39:05 66.83.236.250 161508 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Dean, 02-25-2005 05:18:39   But those same sales numbers can be decieving. Ford sold a ton of 8N's. There were MILLIONS more (small) farms back then. The most popular tractors today sell in the hundreds or a few thousand. You also need to look at the numbers of units sold IN COMPARISON to the competitors simular models. The IH 806 was an extremely popular tractor, yet Deere sold almost double the amount of 4020's. In fact, the 4020 sold more than the 706 AND 806 combined. (IH being Deere's next closest competitor at that time) Also, like the 8N, the 4020 changed the face of what a modern tractor should be like. The 8N however, was left in the dust as tractors got bigger, more powerfull, and more modern. It took years for a significant change from what standards the 4020 set. I see the "best of their era" tractors as the FarmAll regular, The Fordson N, The N series Ford, the FarmAll h&m, then the 4010/4020, the Deere 4440, and then things get a little diluted.....LOTS of goodones, but no OUTSTANDING one.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-25-2005 03:52:37 66.83.236.250 161496 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   As time went by, the demand for higher horsepower left tractors like the 4020 behind. Deere introduced the 4430 in 1973. It became their biggest seller UNTIL the 4440 was introduced. The 4440 has taken over as the BEST tractor for its time, Deere, or any one else for that matter, ever built. There's better/bigger/more modern tractors now, but just look at the dollar a good 4440 will command nowdays.... They are STILL extremely popular. I have one, and would LIKE to have another. (I have a 4020 too. 1972 powershift diesel, with over 14,000 hours) The 4440 was the first turbo-ed 466 Deere row-crop. It started a series that stood the test of time. They have a few minor flaws, like ANYTHING mechanical, but you need look no further than the percentage of 4440's still on the job to see what a fine tractor they were/are.   [Reply]   [No Email]
G/MAN 02-25-2005 10:52:51 67.52.48.10 161565 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 02-25-2005 03:52:37   Amen. As good as the 4020 was and still is, the 4440 is better. Of course they're not really in the same class either, but still and all, the 4440 is probably the best tractor anyone ever built. Front to back, it has ZERO weaknesses, whether it be powershift or quad-range. Come to think of it, I can't think of ANY of the Deere 4000-series tractors that wasn't at least a good machine, and most could be categorized as great tractors. 4430s were head-and-shoulders above everything else, just because they had the Sound-Gard. The 4640 and 4840 defined how a big row-crop tractor should be built. 25+ years later, there are still slews of 46s and 48s out there getting it done. The 50s improved upon the performance of the 40s with several new features, and the 55s and 60s are still a HECK of a workhorse. There's something to be said for the fact that Deere has built a LOT of different tractor models over the years, and the number of "flops" can probably be counted on one hand. And you'd get an argument from some guys on some of those flops.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Allan in NE 02-25-2005 03:42:00 148.78.243.26 161494 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   MD, Certainly not the IH 1066 as that is not a fair comparision. The 1066 was a far larger tractor than the 4020. The 966 IH is a close as you'll get in the IH line, but it is still a little bigger than the 4020 and will certainly out tug it. The 766 IH is smaller than the 4020 so is completely out of the running. No, I think you're right. That 4020 pretty much just stands alone. Allan   [Reply]   [No Email]
Leroy 02-25-2005 02:51:52 216.255.40.46 161493 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   It makes me sick to think people actually think the 4020 was a good tractor, John Deere lost me as a customer when the New Generation of witch the 3010 and 4010 tractors started out followed by the 3020 and 4020, I consider them JUNK   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-25-2005 03:43:27 66.83.236.250 161495 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Leroy, 02-25-2005 02:51:52   So...Welcome to the world of tractors...I see you're NEW at this. In time, you will learn a thing or two, but for now, just try to keep up. The 4020 WAS the best tractor made during the 60's It out-sold EVERYTHING in its class. Do you seriously think that 170,000 farmers were all wrong, and you are right?   [Reply]   [No Email]
Leroy 02-25-2005 14:21:55 216.255.40.65 161594 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 02-25-2005 03:43:27   I am not new to tractors, Raised on farm all my life and 61 years old, over the years had 5 2 cylinder JDs along with ICH an MM and Ferguson and still have some of Fords I had includind the 44 model 2n Bought new in May of 44 that I learned to drive on, When tome to go to larger tractor than the 2 cylinder went to Ford because they were a lot better and I did not like that old Ford when groweig up but do now, the way you have talked I think I have longer experance than you have   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-25-2005 16:31:05 204.255.238.165 161609 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Leroy, 02-25-2005 14:21:55   Well, let's look at the facts here. You talk like every one of the 170,000 original buyers of 4020's got hoodwinked, and you, the "expert" know far more than all the rest. Looks like the jokes on you, dude. I have nothing against antique collecting, but they are just that...collectors items. Your attitude towards what has been prooven to be the best would indicate you think just because you owned a given tractor that it's the best. WRONG! Consider that the 170,000 4020's have changed hands 2,3,4, maybe 10 times in some cases. There's probably been a million 4020 owners over the years. And we're all wrong, and you and your (throw-away) Fords are all right....NOT!   [Reply]   [No Email]
Leroy 02-25-2005 17:33:25 216.255.40.58 161614 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 02-25-2005 16:31:05   the 4020 was just an oversized version of the 3020 and that was the second wurst handling and comfort of any tractor I ever drove, the wurst being a 2010 Deere, with the 3rd being a 2020 Deere that is about half the tractor altho rated the same and the same physical size as my 4000 Ford and My 5000 Ford was 10 times beter than that 3020 ever was   [Reply]   [No Email]
Indydirtfarmer 02-26-2005 04:59:56 204.255.238.36 161666 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Leroy, 02-25-2005 17:33:25   Thank you for making my side of this debate so much easier. Your comment about the 4020 just now was all I need. The ONLY thing those two tractors have in common was the color. The 4020 was the most modern, best handling BIG tractor ever, when it rolled off the assembly line. I've had a couple 5000 Fords, and qne 4000 Fair LITTLE tractors, if you don't care about having one that'll hold up to hard use. Cheap, short-term power. I guess it's all in what you're used to. If you like little utility tractors, fine, but I'm more inclined to favor a bigger, nore useable, modern tractor.   [Reply]   [No Email]
buickanddeere 02-24-2005 22:55:11 192.75.48.150 161489 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   Yes, Mother Deere builds it too.For all of you that have said " I wish Deere would build the 4020 again". The price competitve 6403 and 6603 don't cost that much more than a 4020 with 33 plus years of use/abuse. The tractors will also do more work per acre on less fuel in an optional quieter cab. The M4WD option which "really makes a tractor", can be had as well. If you feel the need for a little more deluxe and yet save the bucks, the 6615 or 6715 will do nicely.   [Reply]   [No Email]
JD 5020 guy 02-24-2005 19:53:17 207.196.179.27 161483 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   For some methods of farming there actually was a better tractor then the 4020 and it came from JD themselves, the JD 830. I live and farm out in MT big wheat country were tractors are used mostly for heavy drawbar work like seeding and summerfallowing. I know back when the 4010 and later on the 4020 first came out farmers around here tried them out and a lot of them went back to the 830. The 830 would out pull the 4010, do it on less fuel, with way better lugging ability and was an all around tougher tractor. The 4020 and 830 were about even in the field with maybe a slight advantage to the 4020 but the 830 would still out lug the 4020 and do it on less fuel. The New Generation series didn't catch on real well here until the 5010. Don't get me wrong, we had a 4020 and they are good all around tractor but I would take the 830 over the 4010/4020 any day for what I do.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Fern(Mi) 02-24-2005 19:29:45 64.12.116.196 161481 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   So, I’ll take some hits on this: We're running a heavier shade of green around here more than two to one. Running two 4020's if allowed to include one a power-packed 4010. And, running four 1850 Oliver’s plus a 2150 MFD and could use another 1850 or 1950/2050. I do believe the Oliver’s have a more comfortable and flexible operational edge over the equivalent JD‘s. I find the Oliver `5o’s a more pleasurable operating tractor than most others. I do believe they have spoiled me. Easy to work on, parts easily had, and far from the ridicules (red or green) pricey attitudes been laid upon some machines out of stupid rivalry. And we got others: AC’s, Fords, a Leland, and other powered wheels as well, manufactured between 1937 up two 2001 or `02. Bottom line I like the Hydra-Drive. About the time you think your going to get stuck, a pull of the magic lever low on the dash puts the mechanical critter’s drive into slow motion easily pulling the mechanical animal though the tough spots without burying itself, like some others seem more prone to do. Them’s my feelings. And, the red ones? While I cut my teeth on my Dad’s McCormick 1020 and a Farmall A, today they have gotten beyond us for tractor and parts value. Nostalgia, can not be allowed to get in the way of our planting and harvesting a crop. Fernan   [Reply]   [No Email]
Jeff Oliver 02-24-2005 18:47:05 170.215.119.197 161472 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MADDOG, 02-24-2005 18:42:22   Well I'll get the flames started here.... I am really partial to the 4 digit series Olivers. They were balanced really well and had good power and reliable engines. Not sure if they were better than a 4020 series but I would say as good and maybe better. Nothing wrong at all with a 4020 though. If they weren't so high I would probably have one of them also.   [Reply]   [No Email]
MH 02-25-2005 05:33:21 24.199.163.169 161507 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to Jeff Oliver, 02-24-2005 18:47:05   I agree with you Jeff. Have three smaller Deeres that I love. I decided I needed something in the 60-70hp range so I was looking at 3020s. In my search I found a Oliver 1650 for about 1/2 the price of a 3020. Bought the Oliver and it has done everything I needed and then some. The Deere's are great, just a little pricey sometimes.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Mikeky 02-25-2005 11:54:36 198.190.156.119 161573 Report to Moderator	Re: WAS ANYTHING BETTER THAN THE 4020?? in reply to MH, 02-25-2005 05:33:21   In 1967 the neighbor got a new Oliver 1650 and my uncle got a 3020 both diesels, and the Oliver would out pull the 3020 hands down. On the other hand I think the 3020 handled and operated easier.   [Reply]   [No Email]