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G-MAN 07-19-2004 16:22:54 67.52.48.10 138587 Report to Moderator	Not to dredge up old arguments, but I couldn't help noticing our heat index up here in dry Nebraska is 109 today and your's down there in Tallahassee is 94. For the definition of humidity - go into the middle of a corn field up here and replace a wheel gear on a center pivot for about three hours. Sure you don't want to trade weather? [Reply]   [No Email]
F-I-T 07-19-2004 18:12:55 137.78.94.249 138601 Report to Moderator	Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-19-2004 16:22:54   G-Man: Actually, where I am today there are wild fires nearby (LA County). Now I'm all for the fun of it, but.....understand, you're cherry picking a few days out of a year to compare to. There are times that even Alaska is warmer than Tallahassee, but maybe only for part of an afternoon. Go back two weekends and take a look. We were 95+* and the heat index was expected to be 108, and I think it was warmer than that a month ago. I added a link to the story. Here are some statistics from Weatherbase.com: AveragRelativce Humidity: Nebraska = 67.25% Tallahassee = 72.25% Average Temperature Nebraska = 51* Tallahassee = 87 Days above 90* for the year: Nebraska = 39 Tallahassee = 87 I'm still not budging: "North Florida on average is both more humid and warmer than Nebraska". Remember back to the discussion. It was about black algae in diesel fuel. My concern was that you said you had seen only a couple cases of it in Nebraska, and to the uninitiated, they might think, "Well, that means it's rare anywhere". I just didn't want people to think from your comments that because you only saw two instances of fuel tank algae in Nebraska that it wasn't a significant problem elsewhere. It's a real concern down here were it's warm all the time. As I said, in areas where the average temperature and humidity is high, like Florida, Georgia, etc, the occurence of fuel tank algae is real and widespread. If you figure out how to swap weather from region to region, you'll be too wealthy to talk to. Frank   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-19-2004 18:19:32 67.52.48.10 138603 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to F-I-T, 07-19-2004 18:12:55   The only problem is that you're talking AVERAGES. How many days does it get down to 10 degrees or colder to pull your average temp down? How many cold dry January or February days with 20% humidity to drag THAT average down? 90 degrees isn't anything. We had 40 days over 100 last summer. When you do the math, you have TEMPERATE weather. We have extremes of weather, and everybody knows extremes are harder to deal with. Fuel algae doesn't have anything to do with THAT discussion. Our average humidity is 5 whole percent lower than yours? I would have figured it to be 20% lower based on your earlier posts. Is that the difference between prevalent fuel algae and next to none? Maybe you just need better fuel suppliers. Not to mention that we never established just where the original poster is from. It's just as possible that fuel algae ISN'T an issue in his area as it is that it is. Probably more so.   [Reply]   [No Email]
F-I-T 07-20-2004 07:00:26 137.78.94.249 138656 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-19-2004 18:19:32   G-Man: Hey, it's the average temp AND humidity that forms the heat index, and both are required to breed the algae. Too cool OR too dry and a fungi or algae won't thrive. You don't get to pick just one. Next, while I appreciate your and others comments about the weather near Orlando, Tampa, Miami, etc., do you think a state like Florida that is wider than Nebraska and longer than Nebraska might have more than one climatic zone? H-m-m-m-m-m? Am I the only around here with a map? Also, explain to me why we have to powerwash our houses to remove the black algae twice a year (A task I will perform on my patio next weekend). I don't think you will ever see that in Nebraska unless it's at the public swimming pool. No matter where the "other guy" was from, you did say that since you had only seen a couple of occurences of algae in fuel in Nebraska that that meant it should not be a problem anywhere. I guess you might be right. We just don't know where and how to buy our fuel. The entire South East is chasing a problem that could be corrected by buying fuel from elsewhere. Now really, do you think the suppliers would fix that if they could? Don't you think customers would demand it if it would make a difference? Check out the problems they have on ocean going vessels where moisture is a constant battle when they travel in the tropics. Is algae in their tanks a product of their imagination? I repeat, your own John Dealers dealers warn of fuel tank algaea contamination and sell products down here to prevent it. So, if you're not from Nebraska, you might want to be aware of it. I can't help it if you don't believe me, but not to believe Deere Tech, well......Tsk, Tsk. I'm not going to respond to this thread any more. I said it before and I still believe that N. Florida is more warm and humid than Nebraska and that that is the reason that we expereience more outbreaks of fuel tank algae. Frank   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-20-2004 11:33:25 67.52.48.10 138701 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to F-I-T, 07-20-2004 07:00:26   Seeing as how our weather is better and our cost of living is lower, I can't figure out how come so many retirees move to Florida and not Nebraska. You have ongoing algae issues because there isn't enough variation in your weather to stop it from forming. Once it gets growing, it keeps growing. Algae does form in areas here - I've seen it on several water towers. And we can have moss form on houses that are heavily shaded and near sources of water. For our average relative humidity to be so close to yours even when factoring in all our cold dry winter days tells me that on any given day throughout our hot summers, it's every bit as humid here as it is there. Checking the weather websites confirms it. Florida is both longer AND wider than Nebraska? Check your facts Frank. Nebraska is approximately 430 miles by 210. Florida is 500 by 160 according to Netstate.com. We have over 20,000 more square miles than Florida. The facts simply don't back up your arguement, and don't jive with what your fellow Floridian is saying. Tsk tsk.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Stan - Florida 07-20-2004 13:42:44 205.188.116.199 138721 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-20-2004 11:33:25   On the day we loaded our truck in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (mid-July 1977) for our trek to Florida, it was 103 degrees in Iowa. I haven't seen 103 here yet as close as I can remember. I won't attempt to get into averages, but the hot/humid weather here starts in April and lasts until October, not quite like the "dog days" I remember from 40+ years in Indiana and Iowa. I dearly love the Midwest, and would love to live there for about 9 months of the year. For three months, Florida is better. Stan   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-20-2004 15:45:23 67.52.48.10 138740 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to Stan - Florida, 07-20-2004 13:42:44   Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody does anything about it, lol. I wouldn't live anywhere else but here, regardless of the weather. It's nice having seasons, even if we do end up with summer-like weather in the winter from time to time and so forth. Come about March, 35-40 degrees is T-shirt weather, and in September/early October, you feel like you're freezing to death at that temp. I know it can be darn sticky in Florida, but back when this subject first came up, I didn't much like being told about our weather by someone that's never been here, at least for any length of time. So, I started keeping an eye on the weather websites to see just how we compare to that neck of the woods, and from what I can tell, during the summer, our summer weather is VERY similar. And I enjoy a good debate/argument from time to time, so I brought it back up. My original comment was that we don't have many fuel algae issues here in humid eastern Nebraska. F-I-T decided to take issue with that and informed that it's not humid here. Well, there are few places more humid than an irrigated Nebraska cornfield in July, and we still don't have fuel algae in tanks in the middle of the fields. It's easy to talk about averages, but the simple fact is that on those averages, our humidity is much like yours, and probably higher throughout a big part of the year, as we have to have more humidity in the summer to make up for what we lose in the winter in order to be close to your more consistent humidity throughout the year. Same goes with the temps. Our average is much lower, but our 60 or so average temp is the mean between 10 degrees and 110 degrees, while your 80 or so is the mean between maybe 50 and 110. A 60-degree average would sound more comfortable and desirable than an 80-degree average, but it don't work that way. It can be 40 one day and 70 the next here easy enough. Not exactly easy to get acclimated to, but we manage. Anyway, I proved my point and I'll let this dog go back to sleep.   [Reply]   [No Email]
F-I-T 07-20-2004 13:01:23 137.78.94.249 138714 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-20-2004 11:33:25   G-Man: Enjoy your day. BTW, Florida does not have any state income tax, but if you don't care to move here, we'll somehow try and get along without you. I'm not selling anytime shares, and I'm glad Nebraska is such a popular vacaiton spot. I didn't re-start this thread. Frank   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-20-2004 13:40:40 67.52.48.10 138720 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to F-I-T, 07-20-2004 13:01:23   I thought you weren't going to post any more? Don't worry, you couldn't pay me enough to live in a state that can't even properly hold an election.   [Reply]   [No Email]
F-I-T 07-20-2004 15:52:21 137.78.94.249 138743 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-20-2004 13:40:40   Look, G-Man, You have a bone to pick with me, so knock yourself out. But don't despair, I wasn't going to begin to offer to pay you to move down here. If the average number of days above 90* didn't convince you, or the heat index as computed by a higher average humidity and a higher average temperature didn't convince you, then it's just when my grand dad said it was always hotter way back when, at the same time the TV weather guy said today was a new record. The facts just sometimes confuse. BTW, Good luck as you promote Nebraska as the new hotbed of Sun and Fun. I can't understand why Disney passed you by. I can almost hear those vacationeers dollars clanking in the coffers of you state capital. Again, Deere and Company says that fuel algae is a real problem in the southern region. Your assertion that seeing it twice in Nebraska means its not a problem anywhere is like me saying since it rarely snows in N.Florida, then snow is not a problem anywhere. Again, you re-started this thread.   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-20-2004 16:29:22 67.52.48.10 138748 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to F-I-T, 07-20-2004 15:52:21   And you started it when you took issue with my post about humid eastern Nebraska, did you not? You could have easily kept your opinions to yourself and left ME alone, but you didn't, just as has happened in a few other instances where you decided that my info or interpretation of some post just wasn't quite up to your standards. Sorry, but I'm not the type to let it slide when someone jerks my chain for no reason. If I bothered posting every time I disagreed with some little minor detail in someone's well-intentioned factually-correct post, I wouldn't get much done. Apparently you have more time on your hands. I NEVER said fuel algae wasn't a problem in Florida. I NEVER said that fuel algae wouldn't be a problem for the guy who posted in the first place. How would I know? And why would I care? A check of the archives reveals that YOUR initial reply to the question didn't even MENTION humidity - only temperature. Only when I mentioned "humid eastern Nebraska" and having to have a climate condusive to algae grown and moisture in the fuel did you chime in with your comments on humidity. I suggest you go back, re-read my post and see if there is ANYTHING in there that is not 100% correct and accurate, including my suggestion to simple replace the fuel. Further examination of the "confusing" facts revealed that your assertion that it was so much more humid down there was incorrect. Only 5% difference in year-round average humidity by your own numbers, correct? If your averave is 70%, and it never gets below 50%, then the other extreme is 90%. But, if our average is 65%, and it gets down to 40%, which it does, that would mean that we would also have to have a 90% day now and then to keep our average up. Nothing confusing about those facts, is there? What's even funnier is that you're quoting average numbers for the whole state of Nebraska, which would include western Nebraska - much of which is a near-desert area most of the year, in which the humidity RARELY gets above 30 percent or so, and yet you talk about multiple weather zones in Florida. We don't have the algae issues because our weather varies greatly - sometimes from week to week or even day to day. But, instead of admitting that I'm right and that we do get extremely humid weather - easily on part with yours - you rattle on about this, that and the other. Trust me, I don't think anyone in this state wants the problems you have down there. You can keep Disneyworld, your big cities and everything else that makes you think you're the center of the known universe. We'll just stay out here in bone-dry, bland old flyover country and stick to our business, namely feeding the nation and most of the rest of the world.   [Reply]   [No Email]
F-I-T 07-20-2004 16:52:33 137.78.94.249 138752 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-20-2004 16:29:22   G-Man: I'm sorry you feel you have to insult this state to make yours seem better. I'm sure it's lovely. I was in Lincoln one winter and it reminded of my farm winters in Ohio. But, remember that most of the voting problems came from Eastern and Midwestern retirees that came down from up north and decided they couldn't operate the pretty simple voting machines that they used quite well for years up north. Look, I don't want to fight, and I mean this: I think you are interpreting the data much differently than I would. I mean that if I have a: - Higher average temperature - Higher average humidity - More days over 90* You have a much better chance of having fuel system algae. I'm saying that if I don't have an extreme low temp comparerd to yours, the algae flowers don't get killed by freezing, and if I maintain a higher humidity and temperature for more (or most) of the year, then the blooms can incubate for 365 days instead of 120 or so up north. Also, while I may have not known where that fella was from, you didn't ask him either before you said that you only ever saw a couple cases of (fuel system algae) so you did not think it was much of a problem. My interpretation would have been "Gee, if they saw it twice in Nebraska, which is not tropical, then if I'm in a southern state, the odds probably increase exponentially". Which I maintain is the case. That was my original comment to you about watching the Weather Channel if you wanted to see real humidity, though I should have probably said combined humidity/temperature/heat index/days over 90* days. This upset you, so I apologize for upsetting you. I will still watch for and preventatively treat for algae here in Florida, as my Deere dealer has advised me to do. I just spoke with him this afternoon to confirm this and he said they have scads of problems with it this summer as we are routinely getting 3-6" of rain in places per week. Frank   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-26-2004 10:44:43 67.52.48.10 139347 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T. in reply to F-I-T, 07-20-2004 16:52:33   I'm not insulting your state at all, just the attitude of most people I've come in contact with that hail from states and regions that are highly populated and "important". Kind of like how NYC gets 8 inches of snow and it makes national headlines and we get 2 feet out here and don't hear a word about it. I'm not going to lie and suck up to pretend I have any respect for you or where you live. You continue to try and qualify your statements, which does little good. The only possible arguement you have is days over 90 degrees, but as you yourself admit, you didn't think that up til later. And your higher average humidity is a crock, because as I pointed out, our state average takes in a large area that is very dry humidity-wise. In fact, I'd be willing to bet good money that the particular area I live in has HIGHER average humidity than where you live. I also didn't know that it took 365 days of continuously ideal conditions for algae to form. I would have thought that a week or so would be plenty, as algae can easily form in that amount of time, but I'm not the science and fuel expert that you are. But shouldn't the algae die off when you guys get those headline-making cold snaps? Oh, that's right, according to the info that Clooney posted, cold temps don't necessarily kill it, do they? Anyway Frank, I should be the one apologizing for pointing out that your posts, experiences and knowledge are not necessarily above reproach. And I should also apologize for assuming that since I happen to be a diesel technican and work with diesel engines on a daily basis in pretty adverse conditions that I might actually know something about the subject. I have no doubt that my experience pales next to yours, but I've only been doing this full-time for 10 years or so. Sorry to have offended you. p.s. - I also find it funny and at the same time pretty sad that you bothered someone working hard at their job to confirm facts to support this petty little argument. You really do have too much time on your hands.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Jon C. - south of F-I-T 07-19-2004 17:46:39 66.209.40.194 138596 Report to Moderator	Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-19-2004 16:22:54   G-Man - you have my sympathies! I'm at least 200 miles south of Tallahassee, and its still in the low 90's here. But your weather will break soon I'll bet, where as ours is miserable and muggy for the next 4 months! Plus, we are looking foward to a hurricane or two...at least you should'nt have to put up with that...it would do a number on your corn!   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-19-2004 18:13:00 67.52.48.10 138602 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to Jon C. - south of F-I-T, 07-19-2004 17:46:39   It's supposed to be about this way about the next two or three days. We had a spell of about the same early last week, but nothing serious. We've been lucky this year - coolest June for a long time and decent rains. Last summer we had 40 days or so over 100 degrees. Hurricanes - no. Tornadoes - yes. Had one small town here in Nebraska (Hallam) all but completely blown off the map around the end of May. I was through there two weeks ago and it still looks like a war zone - maybe 10 houses still liveable out of a town of around 200 homes. Hurricanes give a little more warning. Of course, we also had about 40 inches of snow this winter, and 10 below isn't uncommon.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Jon C. south of F-I-T 07-19-2004 18:35:25 66.209.40.194 138606 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-19-2004 18:13:00   I went up to Moline Ill. a few months back and just missed some tornadoes. Your right on two counts...tornadoes are harder to predict and locally much more destructive, (although the Hurricane is much more massive, cutting a wide swath.) Still, we can design houses to withstand hurricanes (up to 150 m.p.h. winds), but all bets are off with tornadoes, which we do get from time to time. AND, your weather is far more extreme than southwest Florida......your response to F-I-T regarding "averages" is right on the mark! We are semi-tropical, with about 55 inches of rain per year. But its DRY from November to May (fire season), so ALL the rain hits hard, even choking the frogs, in the few summer months! One more dubious claim to fame....Southwest Florida is the lightning capital of the world!   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN 07-20-2004 06:05:51 67.52.48.10 138651 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to Jon C. south of F-I-T, 07-19-2004 18:35:25   I've been to Orlando once during early spring as I recall, and it was actually warmer here in Nebraska than it was down there, although that was a fluke. It was maybe all of 65 or 70 every day we were there except for the day we left, and all the Floridians we saw acted like the next ice age was coming. We get probably around 30 inches per year, but it can come near all at once or not at all - had an area straight south of here 20 miles that got 10 inches in one shot this summer and an area abour 40 miles south that got 12 inches at one time last summer. You're right about the relative difference in hurricanes and tornadoes. The one that hit Hallam was a verified F-4 with winds up to 260 mph. It's darn hard and expensive to build something to survive that. A lot of older frame homes did and a lot of newer brick homes were destroyed, but that's just the nature of the beast. I checked the weather this morning just a minute ago. It's 73 here with 88% humidity and was 75 with 90% humidity in Tallahassee. Seems pretty similar to me, and our good dews sure don't knock the humidity down much.   [Reply]   [No Email]
buickanddeere 07-20-2004 08:56:28 192.75.48.150 138670 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-20-2004 06:05:51   Getting a heat wave here and the igloos are melting. Cloudy Temp.: 74°F Pressure: 29.9 inches Visibility: 8miles Humidity: 72% Humidex: 85 DewPoint: 65°F Wind: W9 mph Yesterday Max Temp. 77.9°F Min Temp. 62.1°F Precip. Total 0.3 inch Moonrise: 8:52 Moonset: 23:00   [Reply]   [No Email]
G-MAN - correction... 07-19-2004 16:28:52 67.52.48.10 138588 Report to Moderator	Re: Hey F-I-T... in reply to G-MAN, 07-19-2004 16:22:54   Heat index is now 111 F. You should keep an eye on that (weather.com) this summer and see how we compare to your climate. Like I told you, umpteen thousand acres of corn and a thousand or so center-pivots tend to make the weather pretty miserable up here.   [Reply]   [No Email]