NH 461 and a Farmall H?

Zachary Hoyt · Feb 1, 2010

I bought a NH 461 haybine (9' cut) at an auction last fall thinking to use it to cut hay this summer instead of the old Ford 501 sicklebar I've been using. I have a Farmall H that I would like to use to pull it if that is possible. I've seen mention of pulling a 461 with an M in the archives, so I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on the H. My alternative is to use a Massey 35, if that would be better. Our fields are mostly fairly flat, and the grass is not really heavy in most places. Thanks very much.
Zach

old · Feb 1, 2010

I pull a NH460, pretty much just an older 461 behind my Oliver 77 and at times it can make that Oliver bark. I have also tried it behind my ?Ford 841 and the 841 didn't like it at all so I'd almost bet it would be a bit much for that Farmall H sine the H is around 23HP and the Oliver 77 is 38 and the 841 ford is around 45. Of course a lot has to do with torque power more then HP

NY 986 · Feb 1, 2010

In heavy hay I would say no. If your cutting a bunch of June grass then probably. You generally want a 35 PTO hp tractor or larger to run a a 9 foot cut machine in heavy forage.

kossuth · Feb 1, 2010

We had one of those machines and we pulled it with a Farmall M. Different machine but the M didn't know it was back there. I think you would be ok if you weren't in any major hurry and your tractor is in decent repair.

Leroy · Feb 1, 2010

Ours was a Case 555 (Heston PT 10) in a 9' size and pulled it on many a acre with a 41 Farmall H with no power problems. Was Mostly alfalfa or red clover with some timothy mixed in. On ours the header raised and lowered like the platform on a pull type combine so did not take much to lift it. Was given a Gehl loaner once same size cut and that was made so that you raised and lowered everything except the wheels and the Farmall hydrolics were not able to lift it. The Farmall hydrolics are only at most about 800# hydrolic pressure while most other tractors are higher pressure. A larger cylinder would have taken care of the lift but would have lifted slower but all we had was a 3" cylinder so put the Deere B (same power) on as it had a higher hydrolc pressure to lift it. Do not know which way the NH is, platform lift only or whole machine, That is what would concern me mower than the power.

Zachary Hoyt · Feb 1, 2010

Thank you all very much. It sounds like it maybe will work, and I'll try it in the spring to find out for sure. The 461 has a floating head and I can lift it by hand without any trouble, so I'm thinking even the low pressure hydraulics should be able to do it. I just got the tractor in December and I've done a bit of work on it, but I won't be able to really put it to work and see how well it runs till spring. Old, that seems odd that the Ford with more power would have a harder time, but I guess it has to do with torque, like you were saying. Thanks again.
Zach

old · Feb 1, 2010

Ya the Ford 841 is a 4 cylinder 172 engine and the Oliver is a 6 cylinder with mire cubic inches but less HP for some reason. Plus the Oliver has live PTO which with something like a hay bine can make a very big difference

Anonymous-0 · Feb 2, 2010

I pull a IH 990 9' with a 49 H in good repair. I used to use the 460 but went to the H just to put some use on the old girl. Struggles a bit in Alfalfa, but I am in no hurry so I cut in second. Try it. If not, sounds like an opportunity to get another tractor!

Hogleg · Feb 2, 2010

I just got access to a Gehl 2175 9ft haybine that I am going to try to run with my ford 2000 3cyl - roughly 35 pto hp. I am betting it won't handle it. Brother just bought a 1800 oliver that will if this does not work out. Reason I am planning to try the Ford is that I don't want to have to trailer the oliver across the county to cut my small hay acreage if I can get it done with the ford. Gehl book says 35 to 65 hp to run the hayine. Or maybe I will have to go find a second tractor also!

John

M Nut · Feb 2, 2010

I hate to rain on your idea about using a ford 2000 on that 2175 gehl, but from my experience, it isn't going to happen. My 170 Allis Chalmers (55 pto hp) won't run my 2175 in decent hay. My 830 Case (65 pto hp) will do it if I run it wide open, but it works best on 70+hp tractors. I usually use a 686 I.H. diesel to pull it because the 886 is on the baler.

Hogleg · Feb 2, 2010

Thanks M Nut,

We have exchanged posts on this before. I am going to give it a try anyway. The logistics are that my brother's property is clear across the county and is 30 acres and that is where we will do the most of the baling. I can fairly easily transport the haybine to my place and have around 4-5 acres to bale, that is totally flat. Transporting his tractor would be a pain. If that is too much work for the ford (probably is) I will have to decide whether to get a old sickle for the ford or buy a larger tractor. I would like to get a 60-70hp farmall (706 or equiv) eventually but not this year. Figure it does not hurt to give it a try since I will have it over here anyway for some R&R prior to the season start. Probably won't work... Tractor seems to have a lot of guts though. It was rebuilt recently and runs pretty well for it's age.

John

M Nut · Feb 2, 2010

I hear what you're sayin' and it sure don't hurt to give it a try. Like others have said, sometimes the torque of one tractor seems to override the lack of horsepower in some cases. If you're not trying to win a race, and don't mind going slow for that one field, you just may find that little ford will get the job done.
I'll be the first to admit I don't have the greatest patience and when I put my backside in a tractor seat I want things movin' right along. I don't do well with lack of horsepower in the hayfield.
Let us know how the Ford does with that haybine!

Jim in michigan · Feb 2, 2010

i pull a 9 foot haybine(case 555) every year with my H.I added a hydraulic valve to raise and lower the haybine. Works just fine for me,we were cutiing 100 acres a year with it,now we do about 80, we cut rake and bale with the H,I do not have a live power clutch on my H but it works just fine, I use the Case 555 haybine,a old side delivery rake and a NH 270 Baler. Works for me,but I am sure there will be at least one person who says it wont work. Just dont tell my tractor that.

Zachary Hoyt · Feb 2, 2010

Thanks, that's good to know, especially the part about baling. I'll be interested when summer rolls around to see whether the H or the 35 has more power to pull the baler and wagon. Our baler is a NH 67, so it's pretty lightweight.
Zach

Jim in michigan · Feb 2, 2010

I used a 67 and a 68 both behind my H with no trouble, I now have the 270 but its the same baler, 67 just has a short tongue.

Hogleg · Feb 3, 2010

Jim,

What rake are you using?

John

Leroy · Feb 3, 2010

Use the H and you will have no problem pulling the baler and wagon with a hundred fifty 36" bales. Normal load on a 16' wagon is 120 bales.

Bob Semrau · Feb 3, 2010

I'm not sure what the haybine differences are, but I have a Gehl 2160 9 footer that I pull behind a WD with no trouble at all.

Leroy · Feb 4, 2010

Can't go on the figures in the books. John Deere for there first hay crimper said 35+ to handle it, we had no tractor with more than 28 and used it behind a tractor with only 20 and handled it fine. Later pulled a different model crimper hooked in tandam with the bar mower with that 28 HP tractor. You just put your ground speed to where it should be. Run about 4 MPH instead of 7 mph.

M Nut · Feb 4, 2010

2160 is older, but other than that, I'm not real sure of differences. I could be way off base on thinking the 2000 Ford won't handle the 2175. It might do just a dandy job of cutting hay. I just know in heavy hay, and cutting at 5mph, no way will anything under 65hp work for my liking. Again, just my personal preference I suppose.

NH 461 and a Farmall H?

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