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swilk 07-28-2010 12:53:41 159.218.200.150 476024 Report to Moderator	Bought a 1965 4000 over the weekend and I am working toward fixing every little thing that is wrong with it. One of the problems with the tractor was the fact that the factory wiring harness was a complete and total mess. No gauges were hooked up. Nothing worked other than the ignition start circuit .... and it had the neutral safety bypassed. So ... I rewired the ignition system to include the neutral safety switch and basically eliminated every other wire and plan to start fresh. The tractor has an alternator without a tach drive on the back. My questions ..... is there a way to drive the tach directly off the engine? Seems I may have read somewhere that under the oil filter there is a way. Second, what is the "best" way (or perhaps "ways") to get all the necessary gauges working? Can I purchase an aftermarket gauge cluster and just wire everything up? I have read enough to confuse myself on this one .... I dont think the tractor was ever a 6v system so none of that 12v with 6v gauges should come into play correct? Keeping the wiring harness factory is not a concern .... functionality is. Are the factory gauges considered reliable enough that I should be comfortable using them or would I be better served going with mechanical gauges? The oil and water sending units are still installed ..... water is in the side of the block and oil is in the front of the head. Do I have these backwards? Oil sender appears to be bad ..... using a test light gets nothing when jumped to +12v. I intend to install a 12v 30A relay to run the front headlights and rear work lights. This post was edited by swilk at 13:13:36 07/28/10. [Reply]   [No Email]
RodInNS 07-30-2010 05:05:35 216.118.158.123 476098 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   If you want to drive the tach off the oil pump you need to see which block style you have. Early style blocks did not support that type of drive. So... Look below the oil filter. If you see a plug that has thread and a hex head, you're SOL. If the engine has a round welch plug like a frost plug, then you can pop that out, change the oil pump shaft to the newer style, add the angle drive and install the cable for the tach. If you do that you need the newer style cluster for a 4600 that turns the tach CCW. The old one is a CW rotation. You also may or may not need to change the temperature and fuel senders depending on what cluster you get. I've had one that required changing senders and one that didn't... The other alternative is to buy a Delco 10si alt with tach drive from A&I. This site sells A&I stuff and the price, IIRC, was about 350 bucks. I prefer to update the tach to engine drive and use a basic NAPA reman Delco with lifetime warranty.... but if you have the old block style with the threaded plug... you have no choice. Definitely use some form of OEM gauge as I find them to be quite accurate and reliable relative to a lot fo other stuff out there. Mechanical gauges are not really on option for temp anyhow unless you go drilling an entirely new hole somewhere else for the sender... There isn't room for the bulb in the front of the head. Rod   [Reply]   [Send Email]
WayneB 07-29-2010 16:37:01 12.50.100.2 476086 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   I have an alternator on my 4000 (68 model) with a tach drive on the alternator. Tach works great. I bought a cheap tach gage and it lasted less than 100 hours, though. I have one on it now from the Ford Dealer, and the few dollars extra is worth it. Had it only been this tach that failed, I would have not thought too much about it, but another tractor with a cheap tach bought from he same site quit in less than 100 hours. Lesson learned. Cheap price for a reason. Wayne Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see   [Reply]   [No Email]
swilk 07-29-2010 16:03:19 67.219.66.85 476083 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to soundguy, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see riddle me this .... if I was to make my 4000 tach run off of the oil pump would I need the 4600 series cluster? I am not really interested in putting a drive gear off the back of the alternator .... would rather just drive the tach off of the motor and be done with it.   [Reply]   [No Email]
sotxbill 07-29-2010 13:39:09 209.177.137.92 476070 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   you have an oil pressure light and a generator light.. later models had an air filter restricition light.. some had a warning flasher light in the dash. 4000 vrs 4600s water sender is a gauge, as is fuel.. you can buy the replacement unit brand new for about 160... but be carefull as there are two types,, the newer one for the 4600 has the tach running backwards from the 4000.. the 4000 tach ran off the rear of the generator, the 4600 ran off the top of the oil pump. Most 4000 do not have the correct parts to run the new gauge assembly. also the newer gauge used different sending units that reqired different gauges. wiring harness are simply and hardly worth buying,, I just make my own as needed.. And yes, keep you nuetral safety switch installed.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Sean in PA 07-29-2010 01:39:45 71.224.102.32 476059 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see My parts book only shows 3 warning lamps, one is the oil pressure, and it shows quantity 2 for "generator warning lamp bulb". The only other bulb I see in the instrument cluster assembly is the one to illuminate the instruments when the headlights are on. I can't help you with the tach drive on an alternator. Mine still has a generator. I have seen others post about them, so hopefully someone else will chime in, but I'm pretty sure that they were only available on a select few models of alternators, perhaps only one brand, so you ma or may not be out of luck there depending on which brand/model alternator you have.   [Reply]   [No Email]
swilk 07-28-2010 18:26:37 67.219.66.85 476040 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   Sean in PA said: You've got them backwards. The water temperature sender is at the front of the head next to the thermostat and water pump. The oil pressure sender is on the side of the block, just below and to the rear of the oil filter. aahh .... that explains why my light didnt work. After reading your response I went out and tested the correct oil sender and it tested good. With the engine off it would light .... start the engine and within 3 or 4 seconds the light would go out. After shutting it down light came back on. I think I might just go ahead and order a new gauge cluster and hook up the factory gauges. The gauge cluster that is in it is shot .... tach needle is busted off and the rest of it is pretty rough. The new clusters show a fuel gauge, temp gauge and then it looks like it has areas for 4 separate "idiot" lights. One of those is the oil pressure lamp .... what are the other 3 for? How difficult is it to affix a tach drive to an alternator? This post was edited by swilk at 18:29:45 07/28/10.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Sean in PA 07-28-2010 17:42:55 71.224.102.32 476039 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to swilk, 07-28-2010 12:53:41   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I'm not sure on this one, but some of the alternators had a tach drive available as an add-on, like the factory generator had. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I believe that you can still buy the factory wire harness. That way you could use all of the factory gauges, if they all still work. Yes, all 3 cylinder Fords, which they started making in 1965, were 12 volts from the factory. Some of the earlier 4 cylinder diesel models may have been 12 volt as well, but I'm pretty sure that all of the 4 cylinder gas engines were 6 volt. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see If you go with third party gauges, then simply run the wiring for each of them according to the manufacturer's directions. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see My '73 4000 factory gauges were mostly not working when I got it a couple of years ago. As far as i can tell, everything it still hooked up correctly. The battery and oil pressure idiot lights, temperature gauge and gas gauge still work reliably on mine. The proof meter (tachometer) does not. I have replaced the drive cable, but the needle still bounces around and never goes above 400 when I know that my electronic tach shows that it runs at a good governed maximum speed of about 2150rpm. It's supposed to be 2200, but the closest I have been able to get it is 2150 without rebuilding the carb and governor linkage. It still runs smooth, so I don't want to screw around with it too much. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see You've got them backwards. The water temperature sender is at the front of the head next to the thermostat and water pump. The oil pressure sender is on the side of the block, just below and to the rear of the oil filter. Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see That should be good. remember to install fuses on all circuits. If anything goes wrong and you don't have fuses, the wires could get hot enough to start a fire and ruin all of your good work.   [Reply]   [No Email]
woodbutcher 07-29-2010 03:57:09 72.34.177.209 476060 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 4000 gauges in reply to Sean in PA, 07-28-2010 17:42:55   When I bought my 1970 model 4000, all the gauges had been disconnected. An alternator had been installed and was working, but it didn't have a tach drive. My first task was to make the temp gauge operational, so I could do some field work. I found the area forward of the gauge cluster full of rat and mice nesting material. While I was at it, I removed the fuel tank and sealed it with Red Kote. The 4000 is the most reliable tractor I own, now, and the temp gauge, oil pressure light, and alternator light work. The fuel gauge works occasionally, and the tach needle does not move. Butch   [Reply]   [No Email]