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Gary M 01-23-2003 18:36:15 198.81.26.238 314184 Report to Moderator	Have a 671 1959 serial 87692 that doesn't show being ground off but does have a number stamped on the right side of 4489x. The sister tractor(bought by the same original owner) is an 871 serial 87048 that has the left side ground off and restamped and a grind off on the right side with a poorly aligned stamp that looks like 89xx. The 671 definitley doesnt have a grind mark. It does work perfect and does have the wire that added the cam mounted safety switch. Any ideas? The original owner's widow doesn't remember. Both tractors have a large white decal explaing how to operate a Selecto- hadn't seen this before and don't remember if our family 671 had one when bought it new. Tractor is California cherry unrestored and has 723 hours that appear to real. The 871 has 1850 hours. [Reply]   [Send Email]
Donald Bratz 01-26-2003 08:30:57 209.94.177.125 314239 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   I have an 871 s-o-s with three numbers on the left. 432 on inside,41205 where the model should be, and <> 68203 <> on the outside. There are not any numbers or markings that I can find on the right side. Gold paint was found under the transmission covers and on the engine behind the air cleaner when a new head was installed along with other maintance.This unit also has black rimmed guages and black shift lever covers, leading the repairman to believe this may be a gold demo. Does anyone know what I may have?   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tony Jacobs 01-27-2003 20:10:40 152.163.188.3 314302 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Donald Bratz, 01-26-2003 08:30:57   Hello Donald, If your 871 is a Gold Demo it will have early casting numbers , so here are a few to get you started. The engine block will be a 310609, The trans. will be a 312259, The center section of the rear axle housing will be a 312480, located under the pto cover on the left side of the tractor. If these are incorrect post what is on the machine they could be Block-CONN 6015 J, Trans.-C3NN 7006 B, and Rear housing-CONN 4024 B. Thanks Tony Jacobs   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Donald Bratz 02-01-2003 17:45:49 209.94.177.125 314490 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Tony Jacobs , 01-27-2003 20:10:40   Hello Tony.I have checked the casting numbers and they are;Block-CONN6015,Trans-C3NN7006B,and Axiel-612480.I have seen the CONN____ axiel numbers on unites at a local dealer but didn't see them on mine. If you know what my tractor is I would like to hear from you.It was purchased as a working unit as a 1959 871. Thanks Don   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Donald Bratz 01-28-2003 15:15:54 209.94.177.125 314334 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Tony Jacobs , 01-27-2003 20:10:40   Thanks for the info Tony.The tractor is kept at my weekend residence/farm,so it will be the weekend before I can check for numbers.Thanks again.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Scott 01-26-2003 10:59:56 152.163.188.3 314243 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Donald Bratz, 01-26-2003 08:30:57   A 871 with a serial# of 68203 would be a gold tractor but the model 41205 is a 4000 4 cylinder with a select-o-speed trans. and with a serial# of 68203 would make it from a 1964 tractor, someone may have just switched parts around.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Donald Bratz 01-27-2003 15:04:18 209.94.177.125 314285 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Scott, 01-26-2003 10:59:56   Thanks. I never gave the 4000 series a thought,but I"m still wondering about the first number (432).   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob Meinholz 01-25-2003 14:46:02 12.106.21.106 314221 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   Guys ...the right one to answer your question is actually my dad ......but since he's out of town at the moment I'll pick my brain and try to tell you what I remember him telling me about that number ordeal. Seems to me he said that the original serial numbers were to be ground off by the dealer and restamped on the right side with a new number whenever the dealer did the complete transmission overhaul updates. Thus giving you the 88's and x's on the right. Now some dealers never ground off the original when they did the overhall updating, others did as required by factory service, thats why some have both numbers. When there was a exchange done the replacement case was already ground off on the left and stamped on the right. In the case of the one with the gold paint under it ....it ended up this way because the case was originally in a 58' gold demonstrator and it went through the exchange program. It was repainted over the top of the gold, and reissued as a exchange rather than wasting the case(I too have one of these misleading cases in my collection), it too was ground and restamped on the right as an exchange. Some may have even come back out of factory production and been stamped on the left again in the proper area. When this happened,it leaves us the confusion of thinking that these where original demonstrators. The only true gold demonstrators are gold in ALL areas of the tractor under whatever color they are painted today(red or blue), and even the true ones may have a red case transmission in them if they went through the exchange program. As for the operation decal, the original one was all white with a black hash mark border and black lettering. It's placement was directly under the shifter on the back dash console. In 62' it became blue on white for the color change but was still in the same location. Only through the repaints, and dealers bowing to the customer complaints that it was more than "not user friendly" but plainly a pain in the butt, did it start to appear on the transmission cover between the seat and the dash .....much easier to read but much more supceptable to the elements, transmission case heat, and wear of mounting and dismounting the tractor, thus the reason they are not readable anymore. Even the ones on the dash seam to suffer from knee fade in the years of use.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tony Jacobs 01-25-2003 22:46:10 152.163.188.3 314229 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Bob Meinholz, 01-25-2003 14:46:02   Hi Bob, For the most part you have got it correct. I have also spoke with alot of old dealers like your Dad about the S.O.S.'s . The serial number was ground off because it was from the tractor that the transmission was installed in on the assembly line orignally and the serial number for the tractor that it was to be installed into was supposed to be restamped on the left side again. The number on the right side was a tracking or factory serial number denoting the fact that it was now a factory rebuilt/updated/exchange unit and could be tracked for warranty purposes by that number regardless of what tractor it was installed into. I have not seen any corralation between serial numbers on the left and numbers stamped on the right side on any of my tractors or ones I have worked on. I have seen and own tractors that have had brand new cases installed or complete warranty transmissions installed with no grinder marks and no serial numbers, and some with the serial numbers restamped into them also. I don't see any reason to confuse real Gold Demos with tractors that just have the exchange Gold Demo trans. in them because most everyone knows Gold Demo's were 1959 only. Most exchange transmissions that were Gold show up in 1960 and 1961 tractors. I don't understand the 88's and the xx's unless they were a Dealer that was doing his own S.O.S. work. Which quite a few dealers did do with factory mechanics on site as well. As far as the Gold Demo's go most of them have red transmissons and serial numbers on them. All though I do know of at least one Gold Demo with it's Gold Transmission that even has it's original plastic cams still in it (which means it never recieved any warranty update work). As far as the Operational Instructions decal goes I have never seen a tractor that had one anywhere except the top cover. Even the old Ford literature shows all S.O.S having operational instructions decal on the cover. All original paint or low hour tractors I have seen or own are this way. The blue and white decal is a safety decal and they were usually on the dash panel. Thanks Tony Jacobs   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob Meinhloz 01-25-2003 23:24:54 12.106.21.101 314232 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Tony Jacobs , 01-25-2003 22:46:10   Tony, I guess that's why I said Dad would be best to answer.........but make no confusion about it the gold case under red paint (as I have) is a 60' and came off the production line that way with it's serial number stamped on the left side after it had been factory milled or ground off. I only warn the guys that see the gold paint just in the case area, that they do not have a gold demo tractor. This is for the reasons we both state, as they are later prodution years or later exchanges. I too, have never seen a SERIAL number stamped on the right side but only the warrenty repair code as you mention, the serials where/are either on the left or not at all. As for the decal ......you got me.... when rereading the original post by Gary, I confused the 2 decals inadvertanly, and you are absolutly corrrect.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tony Jacobs 01-26-2003 21:06:35 152.163.188.3 314260 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Bob Meinhloz, 01-25-2003 23:24:54   Hi Bob, I know we have talked on the phone before and I would like to talk to your dad about the Gold Demos and the warranty work on the S.O.S. Trans. when he gets back. Call me at 1-413-267-5087 when he returns. I just figured I would help clarify some of your details as not to confuse anyone that's all. As soon as it stops snowing here again I have to go check out another dead S.O.S. with a loader on it, suppose to be a 1959 could even be a Gold Demo if I am that lucky. Thanks Tony Jacobs   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Thanks Bob (Dan J) 01-25-2003 19:27:12 208.20.34.34 314225 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Bob Meinholz, 01-25-2003 14:46:02   Bob, Thanks for clearing this up somewhat for us. Dan J   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Another One! Dan J 01-24-2003 18:43:48 208.15.26.3 314212 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   My 981 has serial # ground off and restamped (888xx). The other side has 14607 stamped on the cast. The transmission was originally gold, Does anyone know what happened here?   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Bob Meinholz 01-25-2003 23:54:18 12.106.21.101 314233 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Another One! Dan J, 01-24-2003 18:43:48   Gary, 14607 tells me it's a 61'. This is it's serial number and should be stamped on the left side of the case in the correct flat spot above the starter, after the original number was milled or ground out. The 8"s and X's number you refer to should appear on the right side of the case ....correct? The fact that you see gold says that it was a exchange transmission,(basically a case from a gold demo that was returned to the factory from an exchange, then the case was used to rebuild for another exchange at the factory,or even put out in prodution, as may very well be in your example due to the fact that it is a 61' model) which was painted red over the gold.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tony Jacobs 01-25-2003 22:51:48 152.163.188.3 314230 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Another One! Dan J, 01-24-2003 18:43:48   Hi Dan, What do you mean 888xxx ? Is that is what is stamped or did you forget the numbers ? It Should say 981 then just below it should be the serial number with NO letters. You just have an exchange trans. like almost every other S.O.S. in the country , that's all. Thanks Tony Jacobs   [Reply]   [Send Email]
The XXX's (Dan J) 01-26-2003 02:00:19 208.20.32.127 314234 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Tony Jacobs , 01-25-2003 22:51:48   Tony, I never thought that my 981 was a gold demonstrator and didn't know the transmission was originally gold until after reading the original post, I got busy with the sandpaper to read all the numbers. The number 14607 is the number on the right side. On the left it is milled down (nice even job) and at the front of the flat surface is 2 little o's that look like they tried to stamp 8's but were at the wrong angle and then the serial number (88828) The xx's were my idea of disguising the serial number from the world. On rethinking that, who cares who knows my serial number? After retiring from 25 years in law enforcement I still sit with my back to a wall in restaurants too. (Drives my wife nuts!) :) Now I know a little more about my tractor, Thanks for all you do for this board. Dan J   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Tony Jacobs 01-26-2003 20:57:53 152.163.188.3 314259 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to The XXX's (Dan J), 01-26-2003 02:00:19   Hi Dan, I'm glad we got your tractor straight and the you are pleased with all the help that comes from here and not just me. If you do restore and repaint the tractor document the gold case trans and repaint the tractor that way just for originallity , it will always be a conversation piece. I also have two 1960's an 871 and an 881 both with gold case trans. in them. Thanks Tony Jacobs   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Gary M 01-24-2003 09:06:41 198.81.26.238 314194 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   Will get picture in a few days tractor being delivered tonight. The 871 that I'm not buying also has the white sticker on it, both are mostly readable. The 871 was for sale at $5000 but it was used on a almond tree shaker so the 1850 hours is probably more like 5-6000 hours on the transmission. The inch pedal is loose and after a couple of hours running the lube light flicked on at slow idle. By the way both tractors idle very nice at 450 rpm have power steering,and if you never had a new SOS you wouldn't believe how nice the shift linkage feels and responsive the transmission works. Even the brakes on these two tractors feel new.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Roger in SeMO 01-24-2003 06:55:00 207.160.14.253 314192 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   Gary, I also have a 1959 871. I am interested in the large white decal. My tractor had one on it back in 1972 when we got it, but it was unreadable back then. Any way you could post a picture of it, or does someone have a source for that decal? Thanks, Roger Allgood.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
RICKWI 01-23-2003 19:26:58 205.188.209.51 314185 Report to Moderator	Re: Select O Speed 1959 exchange program serial # in reply to Gary M, 01-23-2003 18:36:15   Just a theory, but suppose the trans was rebuilt/updated before it was ever installed in a tractor. The right side number tracked the updates and the real serial number was added when it was installed. Will you post or e-mail me a picture of the decals?   [Reply]   [Send Email]