Author	[Modern View]
JasonKS 06-17-2012 22:12:51 184.239.61.245 Report to Moderator	When I test at the battery side of the solenoid I read 12.5 V on the multimeter. However, when I attempt to start the tractor by pushing the start button, the meter drops to zero. What would cause this? I am trying to sort out an electrical issue and I have eliminated the starter and the solenoid. I've also tried jumpering the push-button start switch and the key ignition switch, but nothing happens. Bypassing from the battery to the starter will turn the tractor over, though. I think the wiring, which is old, may be the culprit, but I don't understand electrical issues enough to figure out why the meter would drop to zero upon attempting to start. [Reply]   [No Email]
JasonKS 07-14-2012 13:24:03 76.250.249.97 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid question in reply to Richard L, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Here's the wiring diagram, although my original problem is fixed, thanks to the help from people in this thread. The tractor runs fine now, but I want to post this wiring diagram because I am not sure the battery is charging correctly. A couple of explanatory notes regarding the diagram. I only have two gauges on the tractor: 1. Amp gauge, 2. Water temperature gauge. There is no oil pressure gauge, nor does there appear to be a cut out in the dash for one. The amp gauge either doesn't work or the alternator isn't working. The wiring from the alternator looks a little odd. There is the single post, but there is also a two-prong clip, which has a single wire coming out and that is spliced into the wiring going from the post to the "off" position of the key ignition. Let me know if anything here looks awry. Also, how do I tell if the alternator is really charging the battery? Thanks for your help. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/rubinsteinak/51TO-30Wiring.jpg [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob (Aust) 07-12-2012 17:17:54 60.228.75.131 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   [quote:a7cf418b67]Yes, I connected to a bolt on the back of the dash. Is that a problem?[/quote:a7cf418b67] Usually. Read John's post: "Check the point at which the Ground Lead attaches to the tractor. If it is still attached to the back of the Dash Panel get a longer one that will attach to one of the bolts close to the starter." Back of the dash is arguably the worst earthing/grounding point on the tractor and the source of many electrical problems. The earth lead from the battery needs to be conneted to a good earth bolt near the starter motor, probably one of the starter motor mounting bolts. The lead need to be the thickest you can get, I think the guys recomment gauge "0". I don't know the gauges but here in Australia it is often termed "Cat Lead" - the battery leads usedon Catepillar tractors! That starter motor is around 2 HP, or 1,480 watts. At 6 volts you could potentially be passing up to 240 amps during a start cycle (watts / volts = amps), hence the need for a maximum size "pipe line" or battery lead and earth route. I suspect your corroded earth lead is the result of high resistance due to a poor earth and your new earth lead will go the same way in time. An interesting test is to hold your oil gauge copper line when starting the tractor. Fair chance it will get hot due to being the earth lead from the dash to the engine. I've known the oil gauge line to get so hot when starting that you can't hold on! Bob in Oz '53 TEA20 This post was edited by Bob (Aust) at 17:36:09 07/12/12 7 times. [Reply]  [No Email]
JasonKS 07-12-2012 10:52:36 147.182.5.150 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to John(UK), 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Yes, I connected to a bolt on the back of the dash. Is that a problem? [Reply]  [No Email]
Bob (Aust) 07-12-2012 01:05:08 60.228.75.131 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   15" cable is a worry. Where did you attach it to the tractor - not behind the dash again I hope? It needs to be long enough to connet to one of the starter motor bolts. [Reply]  [No Email]
JasonKS 07-11-2012 06:45:56 147.182.5.150 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to Jerry/MT, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I took the ground cable off the tractor with the intention of cutting of the frayed end and getting back to the good cable and then re-attaching to the old terminal end. I cut a couple inches off and then removed an inch or so of insulation to get to the new copper. To my surprise, the "new" copper had corrosion, looking kind of like white/green sand in amongst the wires. So, I took another two inches off the cable, thinking that the corrosion just worked its way back up the cable a little ways. Well, I found more corrosion. So, I spent the $9 for a new 15" cable with a good terminal end and she started up on the first try. So, this has been an interesting learning experience. Thanks for all of your help. I think I will post the electrical diagram of how the tractor is wired, just to make sure that how it is currently wired is correct. Jason [Reply]  [No Email]
JasonKS 06-21-2012 21:41:50 107.26.19.175 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to cgwarrant, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Funny you mention this....that's the exact kind of connector that is currently on the ground terminal. Needless to say, I will be replacing the whole cable. Thanks for your input. [Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT 06-18-2012 17:15:03 206.183.116.145 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Since you have a non-OEM starter circuit, perhaps you could explain how it"s wired up. Generally speaking when you push the starter button, the solenoid coil circuit gets a ground and energizes the solenoid to connect the battery to the starter. So I would think the battery side of the solenoid would be at battery voltage and the ground side of the solenoid would be at near zero volts when the starter button was pressed. With the starter but not pressed, both sides of the solenoid should be at battery voltage. [Reply]  [No Email]
JasonKS 06-18-2012 14:08:25 184.239.61.245 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   My TO-30 has been converted to 12V battery with alternator, and it has been set up with negative ground. I will try that idea of grounding with jumper cables and test it again. I will say that the ground cable has a pretty frayed connector to the negative terminal. What I don't get is why pushing the start button would cause the measured voltage to drop to zero. If there is a problem with the ground, why can I measure the battery voltage at the solenoid prior to pushing the button? [Reply]  [No Email]
el6147 06-21-2012 18:36:38 50.36.86.62 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-18-2012 14:08:25   you have answered your own question, it is likely a POOR CONNECTION with the frayed ground cable. if a cable has thirty strands of wire and only one strand is making contact it will still read 12 volts but wont carry the needed amperage to motor the starter and will show near zero volts when in demand. replace your cables with no less then 1 gauge and DO NOT use the battery terminal ends that use a metal strap with two 1/4 inch bolts to secure the cable. [Reply]  [No Email]
phil(va) 06-18-2012 15:47:43 71.2.160.210 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-18-2012 14:08:25   Test continuity at the button. Put ohm meter lead on each side of button. With button out should be no connection. Then depress button and should have continuity. [Reply]  [No Email]
phil(va) 06-18-2012 08:46:29 71.2.160.210 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   To follow up on what John said, get a heavy jumper cable, the bigger cable the better. You only need one of the two cables. Hook one end to the ground (pos.) side of the battery. Hook the other end to a bolt on the bell housing. Make sure the bolt is clean with no paint. That will insure a good ground all the way. Eliminate that as your issue first, and this is a quick way to test for that. Then if that works, do what John said and get a long and heavy (like number 0 or 1) cable for you ground and run it from the battery to that bolt, not to the dash. If that doesn't work it still might be part of the problem, and using a heavy cable to that bolt is always a good idea. Sometimes an issue can require two solutions, one perhaps masking the other. [Reply]  [No Email]
John(UK) 06-18-2012 07:07:40 79.76.246.25 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Check the point at which the Ground Lead attaches to the tractor. If it is still attached to the back of the Dash Panel get a longer one that will attach to one of the bolts close to the starter. The tractor should be wired positive to ground unless it has an Alternator, this does affect the spark at the plugs....John(UK)....fergusontractors@hotmail.com [Reply]  [No Email]
kstractor 06-18-2012 04:36:02 75.205.169.23 Report to Moderator	Re: solenoid quesrion in reply to JasonKS, 06-17-2012 22:12:51   Check for a poor connection from where you are testing voltage all the way back to the battery and thru it to the ground. [Reply]  [No Email]