1943 M engine

farmboy48 · Dec 29, 2014

Gentlemen: I have a couple of questions on a 1943 (according to serial number) M that I bought at a sale a couple months ago. Bought it because the bids were so low, got it for $600 with an F-11 loader on it. After looking at it more closely, wondering if it is the original engine, the engine in it has a dipstick for the engine oil level, as well as the two petcocks in the oil pan. Also has a crankcase breather pipe just in front of the tall skinny oil filter. Looks different than my w-6 engine, I believe that is a 1950 if I remember correctly. It has a pto driven hydraulic (prince?) pump on it now, and am thinking of putting mag/dist pump on it like the w-6 has on it for live hydraulics. I know if it is a 43 I will have to put the steel cam gear in it to drive distributor and pump. Just curious mainly about the dipstick, it is marked on both sides, lower level mark for engine full when stopped, and higher mark on opposite side for when engine is running. Any ideas. Basic question is, do you think it is a 1943 engine?

Thanks, Dick in ND

D Slater · Dec 29, 2014

IH power unit and replacement dipsticks were marked on both sides. See if you can find a block casting number up above the oil filter and below the head level. Also see if it has a engine serial number just above the tin cover the breather tube goes to and below the first spark plug. Will be stamped in on the small flat raised area. If its a late enough block the number would be on another raised area under the 2 and 3 spark plug area. If no number found its probably a replacement block. Should find a block date code in the area just mentioned. Also if you find a plate retained by 2 bolts on block to inside of carburetor its probably a replacement.
If a replacement it may have the 43 front cover installed. If the ignition drive casting number has a R1 on the end its a late cover. If not its a 99% probability of a early cover.

DeltaRed · Dec 29, 2014

As was said,look at the casting numbers on the
block to determine year. I would agree it is a
replacement power unit engine.OR....it could be
original engine with a M/W dip stick.But I kind of
doubt it from your description.About adding a
'mag' pump for live loader hydralics,DONT.That
pump does not have sufficent pressure and volume
to run that loader.If you want live hydralics for
the loader,hang the pto pump off the front frame
rail and chain drive it from the crankshaft.
Common practice.And a WHOLE LOT cheaper than a
(new) mag pump.Last one I priced was $1100.00!

farmboy48 · Dec 29, 2014

(reply to post at 19:35:28 12/29/14)

Thanks, the raised (cast) number above filter is C-264, there are no numbers stamped on either of the raised flat areas, however above the C-264, the number 357665 is stamped into block. No plate behind carb, but behind dist drive housing there appears to be a small plate about 3/8's by 1 1/2 in with 4 23 B on it with raised numbers. Does this mean anything to you, I have no reference material yet.

thanks
Dick in ND

farmboy48 · Dec 29, 2014

(reply to post at 19:54:34 12/29/14)

Right I don't think it as a mw add on dipstick, the block is cast with an indented flat and hole for the dipstick. Re the pump, just thought about that mag pump because there is one on my w-6 that runs the du-al loader lifting 5-6 hundred pound round bales, and runs the rock picker. May have to look into running off the crank. Thanks

Dick ND

Old weldor · Dec 29, 2014

I just sold a 43 M with that exact same dipstick. I was told it
was a kit sold years ago. They have that flat area that can be
drilled for the dipstick tube.

D Slater · Dec 29, 2014

Sounds like one they ground the original block casting number off and stamped in another number.
If it has C-264 its a 1952 or newer.
Unless the plate is attached to a hydraulic pump I don't know about it. unless its a rebuilders plate. If you look under the engine oil fill cap and the screen plate is retained by the stud the oil cap goes on its most likely a late cover.
From the c 264 following just above that level toward the front of block you should find a date code. Like 4.12.X or different numbers or higher letter.

farmboy48 · Dec 29, 2014

(reply to post at 20:38:41 12/29/14)

I think the date code may be the 4 23 B, that is right behind the distributor on what looks like a little plate, but that may not be a plate, just has little screws thru it like a plate, lots of gunk around it, used 2 cans of brake cleaner just to find it. Forgot to mention this also has a vertical rather than horizontal distributor, and has a 12 volt generator negative ground electrical system what's left of it that is, no lights.

Dick ND

D Slater · Dec 30, 2014

If the number looks like this picture the block was cast in 1956. first number is month, then day of month. Picture of serial number location if engine came in a machine. What casting number looks like if block came in a farmall or international tractor.

farmboy48 · Dec 30, 2014

Well sir, I think we have established that it is not the original block, the date code on this one is only 2 days previous to the one in the photo. I will have to get her cleaned up and look at the other casting numbers to see how much of the engine has been replaced. I know there is lots of stuff that is not original on her, the front bolster has been replaced with the front end from a w-9, and the original steering has been removed, and power steering put on from a (I believe) 30 series Case.

Thanks for your help. Dick

D Slater · Dec 30, 2014

farmboy48, unless its something strange that I haven't seen all the cam gears were steel. Early ones had a thinner web from hub out to the teeth.
Did you get aluminum teeth idea from a previous post?
lots of older engines already have the gear change from overhauls or other work over the years. probably the only sure way to tell is to look inside.

farmboy48 · Dec 30, 2014

(quoted from post at 17:10:21 12/30/14) farmboy48, unless its something strange that I haven't seen all the cam gears were steel. Early ones had a thinner web from hub out to the teeth.
Did you get aluminum teeth idea from a previous post?
lots of older engines already have the gear change from overhauls or other work over the years. probably the only sure way to tell is to look inside.

In the topic about m hydraulics below, Janicholson, posted that the earlier units had an aluminum gear that would strip teeth, or crack the hub if used with a mag/dist pump. I have one on my '50 w-6 that runs a du-al loader with no problem, it was also said that pump did not have enough capacity for the loader. W-6 seems to work fine with a 12 foot JD flex tiller behind it with lift cylinder on it also use it with rock picker. Can I look inside to check cam gear just by pulling distributor shaft housing, or will the front cover have to come off? Gotta get a book....

thanks Dick ND

D Slater · Dec 30, 2014

Front cover needs to be removed to tell what gear. First type had 4 numbers on it ending with a D suffix. Its weaker than the other 2. next one used until the middle fifties had a DA suffix. IH last design had a DB suffix.
Think J.A.N. made a mistake about aluminum teeth.
Can't answer about the loader. Depends on the size of the cylinders on how fast it will lift or how much lifting power.
You can also tell what size front cover you have by the center to center distance apart of the top two bolts retaining the ignition drive housing. Can't remember the measurements without looking.

farmboy48 · Dec 30, 2014

(reply to post at 20:17:33 12/30/14)

thanks D for all your help, think I will try for the pump, and assume for now since it is a later engine that it has the heavier gear when it was built up. And if it fails I can then replace gear. Only money (grin) and I can use the tax write off, if I actually use it on the farm. Again, really appreciate your help.
I will probably have more questions later.

Dick ND

1943 M engine

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