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Ethenal gas and cold temps.

D

Dave Salway

Member
I know there are issues with my boat
and model T motors but don't run them
in the outside cold. What about 1940 ,s
Farmalls with no lead and the ethenal
mix ? Should there be any thing added to
gas ? I know to shut radiator shutter
for temps. even in hot weather H hardly
gets to run temp. but anyone have ideas
about a heat houser ? Seems like they
are all vinyl now.
 
I run ethanol in mind year round with no problems. Heat houses are nice but I don't believe they cover the radiator so don't do a whole lot for getting tractor up to temp...just help funnel the engine heat back to you. Make sure you have a working thermostat, maybe add a coolant heater, can use a feed sack or cardboard to block air flow through the radiator so it will warm up faster and stay warm.
 
Don't worry about a thing. My original H manual says to use at least 73 octane or something like that [have much higher octane now, plus additives], and keep the gas in a closed container [I think they meant do not store your gas in a washtub out behind the barn]. And if you got shutters, WOW, just close them down enough to heat the engine. You got it made. Quit worrying about it.
 
Yup, you're worrying yourself into an early grave for no reason. The tractor will run fine with the ethanol gas in winter.

I don't know what "problems" you are having but if it's just that the tractor is a bit cold-blooded when first started, that is perfectly NORMAL. They did that with leaded pure gasoline too.

In the cold weather, you will need to work the choke some until the engine gets some heat in it. Won't take much heat, just a little, not even operating temperature.

I'm guessing you're also looking for a heat houser? Yes, what few left on the market are vinyl. Nothing wrong with that. They've been vinyl since the 1970's, even the genuine IH Winbreakers.
 
(quoted from post at 03:45:59 11/11/14) I know there are issues with my boat
and model T motors but don't run them
in the outside cold. What about 1940 ,s
Farmalls with no lead and the ethenal
mix ? Should there be any thing added to
gas ? I know to shut radiator shutter
for temps. even in hot weather H hardly
gets to run temp. but anyone have ideas
about a heat houser ? Seems like they
are all vinyl now.
Click to expand...

E10 will not be a problem. My H and M Farmalls have been running on nothing BUT E10 for all the years I have owned them. I have even experimented with E85 in these old tractors. They like it just fine in warm weather, but maybe not so much in cold weather.
 
(quoted from post at 10:09:15 11/11/14) I have even experimented with E85 in these old tractors. They like it just fine in warm weather, but maybe not so much in cold weather.
Click to expand...
Probably because they are running lean on the E85. If you happen to have a distillate carburetor and open up the main jet, they would probably do better. (I've never tried it.)
 
(quoted from post at 08:49:29 11/11/14)
(quoted from post at 10:09:15 11/11/14) I have even experimented with E85 in these old tractors. They like it just fine in warm weather, but maybe not so much in cold weather.
Click to expand...
Probably because they are running lean on the E85. If you happen to have a distillate carburetor and open up the main jet, they would probably do better. (I've never tried it.)
Click to expand...

I think the trick to getting E85 to perform well in cold weather would be to build a higher compression engine and then modify the carb to get more fuel. The tractor pullers seem to have it all figured out, but they don't do much pulling in cold weather.

Like I said, the E85 works quite well in warm weather.
 
Yes I have the original shutters and
reworked them this summer and can crank
them at the seat. I am not woring about
ethenal so much as proper care of engine.
Dad always seemed to put his heat houser
on to help warm him and the engine.
 
I run ethanol gas all the time in everything. No problems except for winter storage. On the tractors that I use in the winter I use stabil in the gas. For the ones that will be stored, I drain the tank, buy a few gallons of marine gas(which has no ethanol)& mix in some stabil, then run them a bit. I know it's overkill but it's easier than cleaning carburetors and gas tanks.
 
the refineries switch to a winter blend gasoline in the fall, it has more volatiles in it for better cold starting. if you still have summer blend in your fuel tanks, it takes a little more to get em goin in very cold weather. a little ether on a rag held near the air intake should get you off and running .
 
(quoted from post at 14:49:54 11/11/14) I run ethanol gas all the time in everything. No problems except for winter storage. On the tractors that I use in the winter I use stabil in the gas. For the ones that will be stored, I drain the tank, buy a few gallons of marine gas(which has no ethanol)& mix in some stabil, then run them a bit. I know it's overkill but it's easier than cleaning carburetors and gas tanks.
Click to expand...

I have a 1940 H, equipped with a belly mower. E10 in the tank. Mid-October is usually the last time I cut the grass, and then the tractor gets parked until about mid-April or so. I never drain the gas tank or the carburetor. Never add any Sta-Bil or anything else. It always starts right up and is ready to go when I am ready.
 
Run the highest octane fuel you can afford, Sunoco 260, or av-gas is the best, but 93 is next, and 85 will work ok for light duty.
For ethanol fuels one way is to start it & let it run 15 mins or so once a week, this will help keep the moisture condensate in the tank to a minimum, or add an ethanol based fuel treatment like sta-bil or sea-foam, use the directions on the container for long term fuel storage.
Keep the oil & filter changed as ethanol tends to loosen deposits that have built up over the years.
A battery tender to keep the battery at full charge, and tune the engine for quick starts. E10 will sometimes cause carbon build up on the plugs, so keep them clean or replace for quick starts.
If the tractor is starting just fine, & runs well as is, just the fuel treatment will be all you need.
 
Octane has nothing to do with fuel quality, and more often than not it means the fuel has MORE ethanol in it than lower octane. Ethanol has a very high octane rating and is a cheap way for oil companies to make "premium" gas out of regular.
 
Run the highest octane fuel you can afford, Sunoco 260, or av-gas is the best, but 93 is next, and 85 will work ok for light duty.


----------------------------------------

Because there is nothing like throwing away money for absoulutely no reason. Aviation fuel in 1940s Farmalls?
 
My H sat for 2 years with E10 in it. My son put a battery in it, fired it up & drove to the gas barrel & added some fresh gas. I don't understand why some people tend to have problems with it.
 
(quoted from post at 03:45:59 11/11/14) I know there are issues with my boat
and model T motors but don't run them
in the outside cold. What about 1940 ,s
Farmalls with no lead and the ethenal
mix ? Should there be any thing added to
gas ? I know to shut radiator shutter
for temps. even in hot weather H hardly
gets to run temp. but anyone have ideas
about a heat houser ? Seems like they
are all vinyl now.
Click to expand...

E85 by spec is 1% water and 70% ethanol. The rest is gasoline.
The water of course is suspened in the alcohol. There are millions of cars around the world running it without problems. That is however, a lot of oxyen to throw at any engine. Sure it will burn it, but the BTU value is much lower than with regular gasoline. BTU gives you increased combustion; mpg and hp. I one time ran a 1964 dodge 318 pickup on about 80% MTBE. Ran fine , but it did not like to cold start and it turned the manifolds white. My $.02 worth.
FLTechnologies.org)
 
(quoted from post at 07:21:15 11/12/14) My H sat for 2 years with E10 in it. My son put a battery in it, fired it up & drove to the gas barrel & added some fresh gas. I don't understand why some people tend to have problems with it.
Click to expand...

Same here. I think the biggest reason folks have trouble with Ethanol is because of discussion forums like this one.
 

I totally agree with you... Diesel additives, engine oils, gasoline stabilizers. Millions of running engines that run with few problems, but not on this web site. LOL
 
THE OP was asking if there was anything he should add to the gas for winter. The higher octane fuel (he can afford) would promote a slight advantage to cold weather starting, that has been my experience.
 
I personally no longer run ethanol in any of the tractors we have on the farm here. Had a batch one time when the tractors got warm, the fuel would preignite and the tractor would backfire like crazy till it had a chance to cool down. Went back to no ethanol can run all day no problems. We don't use all the additives for winter either and never have a problem (unless we forgot to turn the fuel back on on the tractors we shut the fuel off)
 
Actually the OP didn't ask about additives at all. He asked how the old Farmalls run in the winter with ethanol gas.

Several have already replied that they run fine without any special care required.

Additional information that may help prevent future problems is pertinent to the discussion, such as the use of StaBil or other additives.

Of course any time ethanol is mentioned the foamers come out of the woodwork. Flat tire? Must be the ethanol in the fuel. Rusty body panels? Must be the ethanol in the fuel. Jeez.
 
We have been using it here in IOWA for what 40 or so yrs with no problems summer or winter but it never stops about all the blame put on fuel just how come most of us never have any problems maybe the rest needs to do some good work on their machines and get them in shape then they will start and run just like the rest of us.
 
How will running a higher octane fuel make starting in cold weather easier?


Octane rating is a standard measure of the performance fuel. The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand before detonating (igniting). Good when dealing with extreme heat when you are trying to prevent predetonation - bad when dealing with extreme cold when you are trying to encourage detonation.

I know when I'm trying to start an old cold gas engine my issue is usually failure (or slow) to "fire" - not excessive firing.
 
Cold air is denser, I have always been told winter demands more volatility in fuel than summer to achieve cold starts.
Does higher octane create higher volatility in gasoline?
I am not a chemist, or have any experience in how gasoline or ethanol is produced. Perhaps my Grandfather's, and Father's advice of running higher octane in winter is outdated.
 
(quoted from post at 23:33:55 11/13/14)Does higher octane create higher volatility in gasoline?
Click to expand...
Winter gas is more volatile than summer gas. (deliberately blended to be)
Fresh gas is more volatile than stale gas. (the most volatile parts have already evaporated)
Higher octane more volatile? No, if anything it is less volatile as the same properties that make it burn slower probably reduce volatility. Any difference is probably negligible.

So when you replace your stale summer blend regular with fresh winder blend premium, you have increased the volatility. But it isn't because you wasted money buying premium.
 
(quoted from post at 10:39:39 11/12/14)
(quoted from post at 07:21:15 11/12/14) My H sat for 2 years with E10 in it. My son put a battery in it, fired it up & drove to the gas barrel & added some fresh gas. I don't understand why some people tend to have problems with it.
Click to expand...

Same here. I think the biggest reason folks have trouble with Ethanol is because of discussion forums like this one.
Click to expand...

You hit that one on the head!
 
I have no choice unless I go to an airport, EPA E10. Been using for decades, no issues. Some say it's not good for 2 cycles. I don't have any 2 cycles. My IH C has no issues with E10. I use my Jubilee summer and winter. In winter, I have to crank the main jet out 2 full turns to get enough power to push snow. In summer crank it back in 2 turns to mow grass with 6 ft woods finish mower.

IMHO winter gas, like ethanol, has less power. Some say winter blend contains butane.

I have a 2004 terramite, T5C. It has a 20 hp kohler command EPA carb with absolutely no carb adjustments. In summer, the fuel mix runs rich. I use it very little in winter, but it runs better with more colder air.

So this past summer, to prevent dieseling and to lean it down, I made E20 by blending E10 with E85. That cooled the engine off, produced leaner burn too. A slight loss of power, but nothing I couldn't live without. Now that cold air has arrived, I can really feel the loss of power. Going to go back to burning E10 next tank.

I've read that after 3 months, E10 can start to separate forming different layers. So keep your fuel fresh.

Ethanol can and does absorb moisture. I think ethanol is what you add to prevent gas line freeze up. So sometimes ethanol is your friend and sometimes some thing it the enemy is your fuel gets old.
 
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