450 TA Question

Ron in Nebr · Nov 9, 2014

In reading some posts in the archives, I saw where some people had bought tractors with 80-90wt gear oil in their transmissions, and when they drained it and refilled with HyTran, their non-working TA's started working again.

This kind of suprised me since I figured a mechanical TA would either work or it wouldn't, depending on it's mechanical condition, regardless of what type of oil.

So, since the TA on my 450 hasn't worked since I bought it, I decided to check out what oil was in there, just in case....turned out to be hydraulic oil, so I guess not gonna be THAT easy....

....but...just a stab in the dark here...if just oil viscosity will make 'em work or not, is it possible that having water in the oil(mines milky and due for a change), or having too little oil(mines about 3 inches down from the full hole), or a combination of both would possibly make the TA not work? Any chance it could possibly be that easy?

Gonna go ahead and change fluid and see what happens since it needs it anyway, but thought I'd ask here first.

D beatty · Nov 10, 2014

I don't know if just changing oil will work. Have you checked the adjustment on the TA to see if its out of adjustment or not. My 450 TA worked when I bought it but I changed the oil right after I got it. I put in one gallon of Lucas Hydraulic Oil Booster& Stop Leak and finshed filling with Hy-Trans oil.

D Slater · Nov 10, 2014

If when the handle is pulled back the tractor stops and a whining noise is heard. My opinion is if you want the t/a to be good take it out and repair. Waist of oil to change before draining to work on it, unless you are going to use the tractor without repairing the t/a.
Without double checking I think 450 tractors came with light engine oil in the transmissions. Think they said the heavy oil could be used if temps didn't fall below a certain temperature.
Memory could be off, someone will correct me if so.

D beatty · Nov 10, 2014

D Slater if tha tractor came with a t/a they did us a light engine oil with an additive that could be gotten through an IH dealer. When I did mine I asked Case/IH dealer if they had the additive and was told they couldn't get it anymore. The dealer said that all they use now is Hy-Trans and it would do the same thing as the light engine oil with the additive.

Harry Klever · Nov 10, 2014

From what i was told both Hy Tran ,and Low Ash Engine oil were landmark lubrication inventions. I got neighbors that use Hy Tran in their differentials, in their 4-wheel drive pickups. My 450 0wners manual,talks about adding that IH Torque Amplifier Transmission Lubrication Additive if temp is below 40* F. 1 quart to 4 gallons of the SAE 75 gear lube,or if its + 40*F degrees then you could use SAE-90.... Wow now we know why they invented Hy Tran !

Ron in Nebr · Nov 10, 2014

Yes, I'm pretty confident that the only way this TA is gonna work is to split the tractor and fix it right.

I can't hear any "whirring" noise when I pull the lever, the tractor just coasts to a stop...of course my hearing's maybe 50% of what it once was...

I had just read in the archives about some TA's that suddenly started working after a switch from 90wt to HyTrans, so was curious if being full of clean new HyTrans would possibly make mine work.

I did consider the factor that the new oil would be wasted if/when the TA repair is done. But I've been using the tractor without TA for a while now, and it may be years before it actually gets the TA repaired, so I'm gonna bite the bullet and put new oil in her for now.

mkirsch · Nov 10, 2014

Can't say as I've ever read about anyone replacing hytran with hytran and their TA starting to work.

It's the heavy viscosity of the gear lube that "gums up" the TA and keeps the ramps and rollers from engaging. Water doesn't increase the viscosity of hytran anywhere near what it would take to match gear lube. I don't think water increases the viscosity of hytran at all, in fact.

Not sure what your opinion on using "compatible" oils are but you could save a lot by going with generic hytran compatible for the rear end since it's not going through any pumps or mixing with any hydraulic systems.

D Slater · Nov 10, 2014

Looked at a f-450 operators manual I have printed 3-7-58. It says use SAE-75 gear oil or a mixture of one quart IH torque amplifier transmission lubricate additive to each 4 gallons of SAE-10 or SAE-10W engine oil with a T/A.
F-350 one printed 6-57 says use the 10 weight and the T/A additive to ever 4 gallons.
F-400 manual 1004381R1 printed 10-28-54 said use SAE-80. Later F-400 manual 1004381R2 says use the 10 weight and additive.
Everything changed since then and one reason for the changes along the way was IH having complaints about the T/A operation in cold weather.

larryanderson · Nov 11, 2014

Usually out or going out is how some describe T/As .They will just stop in low range [and freewheel] and usually $1000 minimum.The lack of T/A does hurt the value to some ,others would just as soon not have the problem

Cory Schmidt · Nov 13, 2014

The T/A on our 706 went out. It started as an annoying jerk. I asked on here what the problem was. Someone (don't recall who) suggested just going through the valve/control unit for the T/A. Never got around to looking it over till the thing completely went out (freewheeling). Pulled the whole tractor apart and replaced T/A. While taking it apart we discovered a broken spring at the bottom of the transmission case. Rebuilt the valve to since the rest was apart. And found out where the spring came from. Put the tractor back together, It works great now.
Maybe its just the control unit messing it up.

450 TA Question

Ron in Nebr

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D beatty

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D Slater

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D beatty

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Harry Klever

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Ron in Nebr

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mkirsch

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D Slater

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larryanderson

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Cory Schmidt

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