200 still running rough and VERY hard to start

Last year the tractor ran well, but every now and then it would stall and not start. If you let it sit it would restart. Spark seemed good when checked. I changed the fuel filter cleaned the carb, changed the points and cleaned a regapped the plugs this spring.
This year it has been hard to start but running OK once warmed up.
So I went out to disc the garden one last time and the 200 would only crank and crank and not fire. Spark "seemed" good. After cranking for a bit gas poured out the bottom of the carb (no choke on ). Took out the plugs cleaned them (they were pretty wet) and still would not start. Ran some emery cloth over the points and it fired and ran rough, but after a while cleaned up a bit and I was able to do the discing. Shut it off, would not restart. Cleaned the points and it started. Let it sit for 10 minutes would not start, cleaned the points and it started. Let it sit for 5 minutes would not start, cleaned the points and it started.

Points are new and gapped to 020. There is no oil I can see coming off the points when I clean then or in the distributor. Literally I can start it let it run for 30 seconds and shut it down and have to clean the points to get it to started.

What to do? Get some new points and try them? Could it be weak spark from a weak coil. Coil ohmes at 3.5

I also think I have a carb issues as it drips if the gas is not shut off and if it does not start right off gas POURS out of the drip hole. I have taken the carb apart and cleaned it well. It is a Carter carb.

Once it starts and warms up and cleans all the gas out of the cylinders it seems to run pretty good. It still misses now and then, but has power.
Any thought??????

I would try a different coil on it. if the coil starts to go bad, it can draw much more current than it is supposed top. Making the points arc. Jim

HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS TYPE ISSUE. DO YOU HAVE THIS TRACTOR ON 6V OR 12V. IF ON 12V, YOU SHOULD HAVE A 12V INTERNAL COIL. PUT IN NEW CONDENSOR AND TRY THIS. SOUNDS LIKE CARB JUST NEEDS CLEANING. CHECK FOR HOLE IN FLOAT IF FLOODING. BE SURE AND TAKE OUT THE ELL WHERE GAS CONNECTS, THERE IS A FACTORY INSTALLED SCREEN ON END WHICH IS NORMALLY OVERLOOKED. ALSO CHECK FOR MANIFOLD LEAKS OR HOLE BURNED IN MANIFOLD. EXCESSIVE FIRE IS COMING TO POINTS IS WHY U ARE HAVING TO CLEAN EACH TIME. STARTS ON 12V AND RUNS ON 6V. IF NOT INTERNAL COIL, PUTTING TO MUCH FIRE TO POINTS. CAN ALSO PUT RESISTOR IN LINE FROM COIL TO POINTS TO MAKE RUN ON 6V. THIS IS A MINOR PROBLEM, YOU ARE SIMPLY MISSING SOME LITTLE THING. CLEAN CARB GOOD WITH CARB CLEANER, RE INSTALL AND BACK LOAD SCREW ABOUT 2 RNDS OR SO. MAKE SURE CHOKE IS NOT PARTIALLY CLOSED CAUSING TO RUN ROUGH OR SMOKE EXCESSIVE.

Sounds good. To answer a few ? It is 12v. Coil is the Napa IC14sb 12 volt which has an internal resistor. Condenser is new. I have had carb apart 2 times in the last weeks, cleaned all passages with a small wire and soaked down good with carb cleaner and blown out. Float is in good shape although I did not set the float. Decent stream a gas coming out of the bowl when plug removed of the carb. Mixture screw is turned out 1 turn from seat. There may be a leak between the manifold and the carb as it does look wet sometimes when it floods.
The coil tends to get pretty hot too.
I tried a different coil on it, BUT it was not new and probably on my shelf, for a reason. It was not a known good coil. There was a resistor with it so IIRC it was probably the original 6 volt coil that could have be 60 years old
I will make a new gasket for that this weekend and try a new coil.

Went out and tried to start it 2 times in the last hour. It now fires off on the first or second rev and runs smooth. It has done this before though. Could go out in the AM and it will not start as above. It started fine for the last few days when I tired it , but today NADA.

Not a flame, just reality!! Coils do not have internal resistors, they are just made to operate on the 14.2 volts of the 12v system's charging/running voltage. Just like 12v and 6v light bulbs. Those that say 12v no external resistor required in some way imply that they have them inside, they do not. Jim

Thanks Jim I think I remember you saying that before. It's how they are wound right?

It is. More and finer wires are used in the primary winding. These wires produce the same amount of magnetism as the 6 volt coils, so the spark power is the same.
The reason that external resistors are used is so they can be bypassed with wiring that gives direct battery voltage to the coil while cranking. (it has been the way that coils have been used for a long time in cars so they start in the cold. Ford used the system on 6 volt systems, with a 4 volt rated coil and a resistor). The starter relay had an "I" terminal that provided cranking voltage to the coil directly bypassing the resistor.
When cranking the battery voltage can drop to 10 volts (or 5 volts on a 6v system) thus the coil is effectively given operational voltage to help get the unit started. Jim

Just my 2 cents, emery cloth on points is not the way to go - The
thin layer of nickel that those points were once coated with has
probably long been sanded away by it. The contacts are probably
rounded over now, not flat like they started out. Replacing them
would help a lot.

(quoted from post at 02:34:31 05/23/14) Just my 2 cents, emery cloth on points is not the way to go - The
thin layer of nickel that those points were once coated with has
probably long been sanded away by it. The contacts are probably
rounded over now, not flat like they started out. Replacing them
would help a lot.

Click to expand...

Thanks Mike the points literally have 2 or 3 hours on then. I know that is not what to use, but it is all when I had when I stalled when discing. I usually use the "strike" part of a match box, which is what I used when I got it home.

I seriously think I have a carb issue with a smaller spark issue and the carb is flooding the thing making it hard to start, cleaning the points just helps it a bit. I think it sparks enough to run, but any extra gas and it does not. New coil, possible new points and possible new carb in the future.

How do you set the float in this thing??????

after you use emory paper you are supposed to wipe a
dollar bill through the points a couple of times to
get the grit off them. Also .020 sounds like too
wide a gap.

Don't waste your money on a new carb. The UPS guy usually screws them up in shipment and you'll have to take it apart and rebuild it anyway. All yours needs is a good cleaning and a few replacement parts.

Generally speaking you set the float by bending a tab. Depends on the carburetor.

Zenith carb float height is 1-5/32", IIRC.

(quoted from post at 04:59:02 05/23/14) Don't waste your money on a new carb. The UPS guy usually screws them up in shipment and you'll have to take it apart and rebuild it anyway. All yours needs is a good cleaning and a few replacement parts.

Generally speaking you set the float by bending a tab. Depends on the carburetor.

Zenith carb float height is 1-5/32", IIRC.

Click to expand...

I have a Carter Carb anyone know the measurement for that? what do you actually measure from for the measurement.
.020 is what it says in the manual is that not correct?

Measure kind of like this
how-to-diy.org/kjfDlFiXHGY9Yt/Farmall-Cub-IH-1964-Carburetor-Kit-Install-Float-Adjustment-Part-2-wmv.html


I know it is a totally different carb.

From where the gasket mounts to the top of thecarb???

The points arcing and burning so quickly are from having 12 volts going through 6 volt points. Had the same issue when using an 8 volt battery on a six volt system.
An external resistor is wired inline between the ignition switch and the coil. Your coil may have an internal resistor, but sounds as though it has burned out, a common problem. The external resistors last much longer.
http://www.hot-spark.com/HS14BR.htm
Use caution when installing the ceramic type, choose a location that will remain dry, and they create a lot of heat.

have you checked the intake manifold bolts and gasket? I had a 404 that was bothering the same way as yours and the bolts were not tight.

(quoted from post at 07:06:15 05/26/14) have you checked the intake manifold bolts and gasket? I had a 404 that was bothering the same way as yours and the bolts were not tight.

Click to expand...

Have not checked , but I will.

Funny thing is for the last week I have started it every day and it will fire right up and run smooth as silk. It will literally start within 1/2 to 1 second pull on the starter. I have not put it under load, just up and down the drive a few times. If it is like last year it will be fine for a while, then out of nowhere it will stall and be hard to start/no start. No rhyme or reason. I will check spark and it will have it. Spray with starting fluid not even a chug. Let it sit for 2 hours or so and it will fire up and be fine. Thinking float is sticking and flooding it out and possibly a weak coil. Will try to get a new needle and seat set the float and get a new coil. Got lots of irons in the fire so it may be a bit, but I will keep posted on changes and parts change outs.

(quoted from post at 17:00:39 05/26/14)

(quoted from post at 07:06:15 05/26/14) have you checked the intake manifold bolts and gasket? I had a 404 that was bothering the same way as yours and the bolts were not tight.

Click to expand...

Have not checked , but I will.

Funny thing is for the last week I have started it every day and it will fire right up and run smooth as silk. It will literally start within 1/2 to 1 second pull on the starter. I have not put it under load, just up and down the drive a few times. If it is like last year it will be fine for a while, then out of nowhere it will stall and be hard to start/no start. No rhyme or reason. I will check spark and it will have it. Spray with starting fluid not even a chug. Let it sit for 2 hours or so and it will fire up and be fine. Thinking float is sticking and flooding it out and possibly a weak coil. Will try to get a new needle and seat set the float and get a new coil. Got lots of irons in the fire so it may be a bit, but I will keep posted on changes and parts change outs.

Click to expand...

Used it today a bit. Started right up ran perfect good power. Shut it down and no start. Cleaned the points and it started. The coil is VERY hot. Time for a new coil today.

(quoted from post at 06:23:42 05/27/14)

(quoted from post at 17:00:39 05/26/14)

(quoted from post at 07:06:15 05/26/14) have you checked the intake manifold bolts and gasket? I had a 404 that was bothering the same way as yours and the bolts were not tight.

Click to expand...

Have not checked , but I will.

Funny thing is for the last week I have started it every day and it will fire right up and run smooth as silk. It will literally start within 1/2 to 1 second pull on the starter. I have not put it under load, just up and down the drive a few times. If it is like last year it will be fine for a while, then out of nowhere it will stall and be hard to start/no start. No rhyme or reason. I will check spark and it will have it. Spray with starting fluid not even a chug. Let it sit for 2 hours or so and it will fire up and be fine. Thinking float is sticking and flooding it out and possibly a weak coil. Will try to get a new needle and seat set the float and get a new coil. Got lots of irons in the fire so it may be a bit, but I will keep posted on changes and parts change outs.

Click to expand...

Used it today a bit. Started right up ran perfect good power. Shut it down and no start. Cleaned the points and it started. The coil is VERY hot. Time for a new coil today.

Click to expand...

Got a new coil today will put it on later. It is the NAPA IC14SB. Should I put a resistor in the small wire that runs between the coil and the distributor, I have not read I had to and heard the points do not care, if it is 6 or 12 but wondering all the same.

(quoted from post at 14:42:01 05/27/14)

(quoted from post at 06:23:42 05/27/14)

(quoted from post at 17:00:39 05/26/14)

(quoted from post at 07:06:15 05/26/14) have you checked the intake manifold bolts and gasket? I had a 404 that was bothering the same way as yours and the bolts were not tight.

Click to expand...

Have not checked , but I will.

Funny thing is for the last week I have started it every day and it will fire right up and run smooth as silk. It will literally start within 1/2 to 1 second pull on the starter. I have not put it under load, just up and down the drive a few times. If it is like last year it will be fine for a while, then out of nowhere it will stall and be hard to start/no start. No rhyme or reason. I will check spark and it will have it. Spray with starting fluid not even a chug. Let it sit for 2 hours or so and it will fire up and be fine. Thinking float is sticking and flooding it out and possibly a weak coil. Will try to get a new needle and seat set the float and get a new coil. Got lots of irons in the fire so it may be a bit, but I will keep posted on changes and parts change outs.

Click to expand...

Used it today a bit. Started right up ran perfect good power. Shut it down and no start. Cleaned the points and it started. The coil is VERY hot. Time for a new coil today.

Click to expand...

Got a new coil today will put it on later. It is the NAPA IC14SB. Should I put a resistor in the small wire that runs between the coil and the distributor, I have not read I had to and heard the points do not care, if it is 6 or 12 but wondering all the same.

Click to expand...

Started it and it started and ran good. Coil has 13 vol volts going in (+) and 6.6 coming out (-) Changed the coil to the new one and it would not start. After a bit it started and I turned it off and it would not start again. Cleaned the points and no start. Changed the coil back to the old one and no start. Finally the battery ran low and I threw it on the charger and called it a night. Any thoughts.

Tried to start it later with new coil and still nothing. Not even a backfire. Sprayed starting fluid in Manifold and it fired and ran. Ran it for 10 minutes shut it off and starter would not crank. Will start new thread about that