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M Hydraulic issue, low/no pressure

R

Raymond Trum-Searah

New User
Hello All
I have a 1945 M "restored" by a collector
Bought the tractor at auction in December in New
York, so I don"t know it"s real history
It is in great shape but I am having a few issues
with it here and there
The biggest issue would be the hydraulics
It came with the auxiliary 2 way valve but no
remotes. Got the remotes but I have no pressure when
I hit the control lever, with the lift all turned on

If I have the lines open I can get fuild to squirt
out, I put a gauge on both remotes and the front
fitting on the left side, no matter where it is it
barely registers (it is a 10,000psi gauge but it is
not even moving to what would be 500 psi.)

When I release the 2 way valve lever fuild squirts
out of the vent cap
Can anyone shed some light on this, or what I may be
doing wrong
 
Really need more info. But if the remote valve is plumbed from one of the side liftall ports and then returns to the liftall at the fill opening or the drain opening the valve needs moved to a pressure position to have pressure on a side port.
To have pressure from the remote valve the liftall operating lever needs locked back.
If that's the way things is and you can't get pressure, check for low oil level. If that's not it the pump will need pulled out and checked.
 
First thing is that the pressure is going to be about 750 on a good day. That is the normal pressure for a Liftall with no modifications in that era. It is an open center system meaning it makes pressure when the the pump control rod is pulled, and no other time. This pressure is applied to both the front elbow outlets at the same time (it is a T inside) The left rear is a delay port we will not discuss it, leave it plugged. The two way valve is usually hooked to the right pressure port, and its Center (return) is dumped into the reservoir. When the 2 way is ni neutral, and the pump control rod is pulled and held back, the fluid circulates through the 2way and back to the reservoir. If you hook up hoses to the 2 way and put couplings on the hoses there should be pressure at each coupling when the 2way valve is moved to put pressure in that hose. If there is air in the hose, the air can pressurize and blow oil out of the reservoir cap. The cap should not be vented with 2 way cylinders connected to the 2way valve. A motor, or 2way cylinder puts oil back in the reservoir as it goes out to the other end of the cylinder/or returns from the motor discharge. The diagram provided is reasonable. the valve shown is hydraulically the same as a IH christmas tree 2 way valve. Jim
a148979.jpg
 
Here are more pictures
Front of 2 way valve and vent pipe


Rear of valve
The 2 plugged holes have remotes in them now
The line on the left is pressure in from belly pump
Lift all control arm on right
 
(quoted from post at 01:02:02 03/12/14) Really need more info. But if the remote valve is plumbed from one of the side liftall ports and then returns to the liftall at the fill opening or the drain opening the valve needs moved to a pressure position to have pressure on a side port.
To have pressure from the remote valve the liftall operating lever needs locked back.
If that's the way things is and you can't get pressure, check for low oil level. If that's not it the pump will need pulled out and checked.
Click to expand...
The valve is moved to the locked back "lift" setting and I'm not getting pressure
 
Switch the control rods. Them lock the Lift-all rod all the way out with the U-shaped device on the outer bracket (Vice-grip works well also.) Then you can raise and lower using other control rod connected to the "Christmas Tree"
When not using Two-way, release the Lift-all rod.
 
(quoted from post at 02:07:09 03/12/14) First thing is that the pressure is going to be about 750 on a good day. That is the normal pressure for a Liftall with no modifications in that era. It is an open center system meaning it makes pressure when the the pump control rod is pulled, and no other time. This pressure is applied to both the front elbow outlets at the same time (it is a T inside) The left rear is a delay port we will not discuss it, leave it plugged. The two way valve is usually hooked to the right pressure port, and its Center (return) is dumped into the reservoir. When the 2 way is ni neutral, and the pump control rod is pulled and held back, the fluid circulates through the 2way and back to the reservoir. If you hook up hoses to the 2 way and put couplings on the hoses there should be pressure at each coupling when the 2way valve is moved to put pressure in that hose. If there is air in the hose, the air can pressurize and blow oil out of the reservoir cap. The cap should not be vented with 2 way cylinders connected to the 2way valve. A motor, or 2way cylinder puts oil back in the reservoir as it goes out to the other end of the cylinder/or returns from the motor discharge. The diagram provided is reasonable. the valve shown is hydraulically the same as a IH christmas tree 2 way valve. Jim
a148979.jpg
Click to expand...

When I said 500 I screwed up
Using a 10,000 psi gauge I can't see small amounts
But I would see 500 if it got that high, it never leaves 0psi
From the picture I posted you will see I don't have the line back to fill port on bottom
if I have an open house I will spray fluid out of the line, so I have flow. But I have no pressure what do ever

I was able to move the kicker on my new holland bailed, which has a 2 way cylinder. It took a couple minutes to move it 20 degrees right or left
any more info needed let me know
Could I maybe have a bad valve???
 
You have the regular IH type control valve that returns oil out the bottom of the valve back to the fill opening. They used a fill cap that the vent could be closed when using the remote valve on double acting cylinders.
Vent would have no effect on a pressure check though.
With nothing hooked to the remote lines. Remote lever moved and with little lock on the side locking the remote in place you get all the pressure available at a side opening when the liftall unit lever is moved to the rear.
If pressure is low with good oil level, dropping the pump to find the problem is the next step.
Since you have some oil movement the pump drive and pump must still be in the tractor.
 
I just disconnected the pressure line from the right hand lift-all port and threw the pressure gauge on there
Almost 500 psi from the looks of it
I need a lower psi gauge so I can get accurate pressures
Will have to grab one
So I have more pressure before the 2 way valve then through the valve.....
 
Should have the same pressure on both if the settings are reversed. Just thought the side port is what you were using for pressure. Early units only made about 500 PSI. Later it was raised to around 750 to 850 PSI depending on the pump condition.
Pressures may be to low for use with a small cylinder lifting a load made for tractors with more PSI.
 
Looking at your last picture, your remote hoses should be connected to the two plugs shown on the remote valve. That is where my remote hoses are connected on my MD. Not sure where you have yours connnected. Al
 
(quoted from post at 14:35:01 03/12/14) You have the regular IH type control valve that returns oil out the bottom of the valve back to the fill opening. They used a fill cap that the vent could be closed when using the remote valve on double acting cylinders.
Vent would have no effect on a pressure check though.
With nothing hooked to the remote lines. Remote lever moved and with little lock on the side locking the remote in place you get all the pressure available at a side opening when the liftall unit lever is moved to the rear.
If pressure is low with good oil level, dropping the pump to find the problem is the next step.
Since you have some oil movement the pump drive and pump must still be in the tractor.
Click to expand...
Not related to my issue
Would the vent need to be fuctioning with only 1 remote line hooked up
Most of my equipment only uses one hydraulic remote line
Only piece of equipment with a 2 way cylinder is my new holland bailed
 
(quoted from post at 14:54:11 03/12/14) Should have the same pressure on both if the settings are reversed. Just thought the side port is what you were using for pressure. Early units only made about 500 PSI. Later it was raised to around 750 to 850 PSI depending on the pump condition.
Pressures may be to low for use with a small cylinder lifting a load made for tractors with more PSI.
Click to expand...
I got no detectable pressure when hooked to either remote line from the 2 way valve

I then tried the gauge on the left front pressure elbow with no noticeable reading on the gauge

After that I disconnected the right hand pressure port, which has the line supplying the 2 way valve. I stuck the gauge there and got a detectable Amount of pressure, but was unable to tell the correct psi, although I believe it was under 300psi if my gauge is right.
Need another lower psi gauge to determine this.
If I have good pressue from lift all ports, my valve is leaking or faulty
If I have low pressure from lift all ports my problem lies within the belly pump.....
 
With the hose to the remote control valve removed and plugged or a gauge installed all 3 ports on the liftall should have the same pressure. Unless there,s a internal leak at a sealing surface or a crack in a casting. If the remote control doesn't show the same pressure as the liftall at its outlets. Suspect spool to body fit in the remote control valve letting pressure bypass. Worn, Scratched ETC.
 
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