Brad Vaughn
Member
I have a Super MTA and was thinking about trading up for an early 560 D. Wondered what the pros and cons were. I know there is a lot of knowledge on here so thanks in advance.
- Thread starter Brad Vaughn
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I wouldn't trade a SMTA for a 560D. Best option would be to add the 560D to your fleet, keeping the SMTA. If your thinking you need a bigger horse and need to trade then I'd be looking at a 310D powered 706/756 or like. Sell the SMTA outright as it's worth some money if in decent shape.
Casey in SD
Casey in SD
I just bought a 560D, but have no SMTA to evaluate the other portion of your question.
The SMTA will probably always be worth more due to scarcity. So from a collectors standpoint there's that.
For me, to compare the two, a huge benefit would be a live PTO and decent hydraulics as far as operational considerations go. Mine came with power steering as well.. so that may be a plus, depending on what yours already had on it.
The SMTA will probably always be worth more due to scarcity. So from a collectors standpoint there's that.
For me, to compare the two, a huge benefit would be a live PTO and decent hydraulics as far as operational considerations go. Mine came with power steering as well.. so that may be a plus, depending on what yours already had on it.
rustred
Well-known Member
no sense going back in time when wanting to trade up as the 560 is a much better tractor, well it has to be... sinse the 560 was modeled after the old M. live pto and hyd. and maybe power steering. WAY easier on diesel than that gas M. better seat and more comfortable than the M. nothing spectacular about the T A cause these tractors dont even need one. way easier to shift a standard tractor than a T A equiped one. to me the price of these T A tractors is a joke, cause people want one just to say they have a T A tractor. then they dont even know what it is for or how to use it. the 560 is also more powerful. i have all these tractors and i will pick the 560 over any model M anyday. only makes sense, newer is better.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
ANY model M was a much better tractor than ANY 560. Unless you HAVE TO have a little more horsepower and for some reason believe that you have found one of the few 560's that hasn't been completely hagged out already, I would keep the Super M any day.
Funny thing is a Super MTA is NOT rare. They made almost 27,000 of them, and most of those are still out there.
Did they make 27,000 560 diesels? Gas + diesel total production was around 66,000. I'm sure more of these were junked over the years, too.
Technically the 560D is a rarer tractor.
Not sure if I'd trade, though. Unless the 560D was a real nice tractor, there really isn't much a 560D can do that a Super MTA can't. You could be trading for someone else's problems.
Did they make 27,000 560 diesels? Gas + diesel total production was around 66,000. I'm sure more of these were junked over the years, too.
Technically the 560D is a rarer tractor.
Not sure if I'd trade, though. Unless the 560D was a real nice tractor, there really isn't much a 560D can do that a Super MTA can't. You could be trading for someone else's problems.
DaninKansas
Member
Unless of course you like/need basic options like live PTO, live Hydraulics, good brakes, standard power steering, a fast hitch is pretty nice too.....
I can't think of a single area that a SMTA is better than a 560, much less an M being better than a 560. I don't even think a gas M beats a gas 560 on fuel consumption much less their respective diesel engines.
I can't think of a single area that a SMTA is better than a 560, much less an M being better than a 560. I don't even think a gas M beats a gas 560 on fuel consumption much less their respective diesel engines.
DaninKansas
Member
Agreed. I believe the 450 is much rarer tractor than the SMTA.
I am pretty sure the SMTA have both Live PTO and Live hydraulics. Power steering is easey enough to add if it has not been done already. SMTA is basically a 400 with the older letter style sheet metal that most people really seem to prefer. Just one of the reasons a SMTA is so desirable. Not saying it is a better tractor than the 560, but I know which one I would prefer to own and that would be the SMTA.
DaninKansas
Member
The SMTA did have L PTO and L hydraulics - but most of the Ms had neither.
You are correct, but the 560 had more flow and pressure than a SMTA.
If I were farming I would want the 560. It can do a lot more with the fast hitch and hyd capacity. Not to mention the diesel would be nice. I agree though, you can usually find 706s in the same price range and I would like that even more.
Dave H (MI)
Well-known Member
After 12 years of haying with an SMTA, owning currently 9 tractors and using and driving a lot of models beyond those I can tell you that the SMTA is my all around favorite tractor. I look forward to pulling it out every year and laying the hay down. I would add another tractor if I needed it but would never trade my good SMTA.
IH made more 450 tractors than SMTA tractors. Also unless I messed up on figures, over 30,000 farmall 560 diesels were built. Anything barely over 23,000 SMTA tractors built doesn't add up. Probably the exact total is below that.
The best tractor for a person could be different for some. Depending on intended usage and taste.
The best tractor for a person could be different for some. Depending on intended usage and taste.
DaninKansas
Member
Only 18,000 450s were built. I am kind of surprised by how "few" 350s were built - according to Tractor data it was 16,714.
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/2/1/3219-farmall-450.html
I believe he was thinking 30,000 or less DIESEL 560s.
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/2/1/3219-farmall-450.html
I believe he was thinking 30,000 or less DIESEL 560s.
Tractor data has mistakes. Anytime numbers and transferring information is involved mistakes can be made. That's why I won't put a exact total number in my information. I make mistakes also.
Farmall 560 diesel is what I said. Didn't count the farmall HC or other farmall diesels.
Back to Farmall 450 tractors. Guy Faye and maybe some others says 18305 farmall 450 built. But if you look above that he shows 17852 in 1957 and 7732 built in 58. That adds up to 25584. First farmall 450 was serial # 501 and the last was 26067. That shows the 25584 # to be to high. Since - 500 from 26067 is lower than that. Also all serial numbers didn't always get to shipment. But there was still more farmall 450 made than SMTA. 18305 is probably close to the number of gas F-450 made.
SMTA tractors all models went from serial number 60001 to 83523. So even if every serial number was built it wouldn't make it to the total of 450 built.
None of the above tractors is rare.
Farmall 560 diesel is what I said. Didn't count the farmall HC or other farmall diesels.
Back to Farmall 450 tractors. Guy Faye and maybe some others says 18305 farmall 450 built. But if you look above that he shows 17852 in 1957 and 7732 built in 58. That adds up to 25584. First farmall 450 was serial # 501 and the last was 26067. That shows the 25584 # to be to high. Since - 500 from 26067 is lower than that. Also all serial numbers didn't always get to shipment. But there was still more farmall 450 made than SMTA. 18305 is probably close to the number of gas F-450 made.
SMTA tractors all models went from serial number 60001 to 83523. So even if every serial number was built it wouldn't make it to the total of 450 built.
None of the above tractors is rare.
big_red_man
Member
My first cousin was a farmer all his life. He had a good SMTA and said working it hard used more than 5 gallon of gasoline per hour. He got a 560D and never looked back. Of course in those days diesel fuel was cheaper, but still the 560D consumed FAR less fuel than the SMTA.
You don't say what you are doing with it but if you are "trading up" as you put it the 560 is a better tractor in the same condition. A 560D is in my future and the M is going as soon as I get one. Sure I could add PS and live hydraulics and a 3 point. But I'd still have a gas hog that the 560D can out pull on way less fuel. Cold starting can be a problem but if the glow plug system is in good shape they will start.
I've got seat time on both the SMTA and the 560D.
Your deal providing that the conditions is about the same as I see it on the plus side for getting the 560D.
More HP.
Weight, at 1000 LBS extra = better traction.
Operates better with better steering and brakes.
Less fuel.
12 Volt.
Fast hitch if equipped.
Faster hydraulics.
Nicer seat.
Looks.
Plus side for keeping the SMTA.
Well, none really.
Rick
I've got seat time on both the SMTA and the 560D.
Your deal providing that the conditions is about the same as I see it on the plus side for getting the 560D.
More HP.
Weight, at 1000 LBS extra = better traction.
Operates better with better steering and brakes.
Less fuel.
12 Volt.
Fast hitch if equipped.
Faster hydraulics.
Nicer seat.
Looks.
Plus side for keeping the SMTA.
Well, none really.
Rick
D beatty and DaninKansas, IH used a fiscal year for production numbers. From Nov. 1 to Oct 31. Most serial number lists are for calendar year. So 450 tractors built in 56 ended up on the 57 year totals. IH shipment records show around 17612 shipped in 57 and around 7739 in 58. That's 25351 total for farmall models. Hard to read some of the shipment records and it gets confusing. At least I can't make a definite claim on totals. But think that total is within a thousand and probably less than 500 off.
Total one of you posted for a SMTA is right at or close to how many SMDTA were built of all chassis types. So all those were not regular SMTA diesels.
From the shipment records I came up with 23321 SMTA of all types built. Going to say that's within 500 or closer of actual shipped.
Think the lists showing close to 27000 SMTA built are including some late regular SM built in the total.
More info., just looked at Guy Fays 100 series book. If I remember correct it came out later than his tractor data book. In the 100 series book if you add all the farmall 450 totals up he lists as being built that comes to 25351 total also.
Total one of you posted for a SMTA is right at or close to how many SMDTA were built of all chassis types. So all those were not regular SMTA diesels.
From the shipment records I came up with 23321 SMTA of all types built. Going to say that's within 500 or closer of actual shipped.
Think the lists showing close to 27000 SMTA built are including some late regular SM built in the total.
More info., just looked at Guy Fays 100 series book. If I remember correct it came out later than his tractor data book. In the 100 series book if you add all the farmall 450 totals up he lists as being built that comes to 25351 total also.
To me, it sounds like you"ve got your mind set on a 560.
Personally, I'd hold out for a 656/756, or even a 706. There are reasons they might cost a little more. If you look closely at the 560, it has the same mechanical torque as the MTA. Same style live pto as well. Same style disc brakes too? This was IH's transitional tractor, there first modern tractor to start on diesel.
More power, more hydraulics,better power steering,but this was not one of IH's better tractors. Be patient and keep looking.
In the end its all about what you want, though.
Good Luck
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