I need some advice or help on starting my Farmall M, propane powered tractor. The tank is full of propane. It is getting fire. I open the vapor valve first, turn the switch on and try to start it. It turns over good but won't start. When I pull the throttle lever back about half way, it acts like it wants to start, it hits a lick or to but then don't start. I tried pulling out the choke but it don't change anything. It almost starts but won't stay running when I let go of the starter. What else do I need to check for?
- Thread starter Tom Box
- Start date
Curt Cooke
Member
I have 8 LP gas tractors, they will start on liquid or vapor unless it is real real cold out. I can't answer your question but would suggest that you get an IT manual that addresses that tractor and go through the tests suggested there. Those books are pretty good.
Jim, the vapor valve and liquid valve are at the same level on my propane tank. They are side by side and appear to be at the same level. I had the propane truck come out and put propane it it. He open the bleeder and filled till the bleeder spitted out propane, then shut it off. I keep the liquid valve closed position and open the vapor valve. The vapor line is crimped a little but vapor is still going through it because, I can open the pit cock valve at the filter and it is pressured up with vapor. I have been told that it will start better with the throttle on idle position and don't choke it. It tries but won't quite star running when I let off the starter.
Curt, I just orderd a repair manual for my Propane powered tractor and paid $42 dollars for it including tax and shipping. It took a week to get it and when it arrived, I was dissapointed because it has nothing about propane powered tractors, only galoline. I also have a case tractor that I ordered a repair manuel on. It does have a section about the propane but has not trouble shooting guide. Thanks for your information, I don't know really what to do next but will try it again tomorrow.
Curt Cooke
Member
Ok, that's too bad. I think if I can be of any help, I need some more info. As far as I know, IHC did not make an LP Farmall M so I'm guessing that your's has been converted. If it was converted in such a way as to mimic an IHC, the equipment would be Ensign. What is the brand of vaporizer and carburetor on your tractor?
Curt, the Regulator is an Ensign. Didn't see a name on the carb. I don't know what the vaporizer looks like or where it might be located, but since the regulator is Ensign, I am thinking all the parts are Ensign. I was just thinking about the propane filter. if that gets dirty maybe it is restricting the flow of vapor? What do you think? I added some pictures which i had of my tractor but you probbly cant tell much from them.
Curt Cooke
Member
Well, I can see that it's a conversion and I see that you have a magneto on the beast. When did this tractor start and run last? Is the problem something that just arose? An Ensign vaporizer/regulator likely is accompanied by a like type carburetor. I can fax or scan you the info tomorrow if I get your email. Mine is [email protected]. That's all I have for tonight.
Curt, I traded for this tractor about 3 weeks ago. The guy I got it from claims that he used it last year for mowing, bush hogging. It has a brush hog attached to it. He says it is a good tractor. My email is, [email protected]
Thanks Curt
Thanks Curt
Hugh McKinney
Member
Have you checked to make sure that the timing is right? Timing that is very late (retarded) can cause some of these symptoms. Good luck, Hugh
Wayne in MN
Well-known Member
With magneto ignition, the impulse coupling has to catch, wind the spring, and release at TDC to start your engine.
If you try pull starting (spining the magneto faster than the starter thereby creating a hotter spark) and it fires up, I would suspect the magneto needs servicing.
If you try pull starting (spining the magneto faster than the starter thereby creating a hotter spark) and it fires up, I would suspect the magneto needs servicing.
Tom, My starting point assumes that You have fire, and all other things are correct.
1.,Leave All LP valves OFF
2.,Start turning over the motor like you were starting it!
3.,Crack the Vapor valve just a little, it should start.
If this is the case and the engine starts, You have a bad Diaphram in the Vaporizer!
The reason the engine doesn't start is because it is flooded! If you have questions Holler at me.....512-577-3837. Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.
1.,Leave All LP valves OFF
2.,Start turning over the motor like you were starting it!
3.,Crack the Vapor valve just a little, it should start.
If this is the case and the engine starts, You have a bad Diaphram in the Vaporizer!
The reason the engine doesn't start is because it is flooded! If you have questions Holler at me.....512-577-3837. Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.
I have 15 propane tractors from mta thru 856.all have different starting chsracteristics. Dad was in LP business in the 60" 70s. we always start on liquid even our 560 that sits out and starts every day to feed cattle even at 25 below. most start the best with 1/4 throttle and choke pulled all the way. if it is trying to run while cranking starter but quits as soon as you stop. I would be inclined to check electronics further.I am not familiar with a mag but on my M I have a jumper wire from the battery to the coil I clip on to start then remove after it starts. It doesn"t get enough voltage during cranking.good luck
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Don't put a jumper on the mag as you will fry it. They make their own spark.
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
This sounds like an ignition problem. A propane/air mixture ignites at a higher temp than a gasoline/air mixture. If that magneto has gotten a little weak or the points dirty and it's making a weak spark that could be your problem.
Personally, I would lose the magneto and change to a battery ignition regardless. Another thing to try (as Nicholson suggested) is to take the intake pipe off the carb and squirt a little gasoline in and see if it hits.
The fuel filter probably needs to be changed but if you're getting anything through then it should be enough to start; you'll have plenty of pressure with a full tank.
The regulator and vaporizer are combined in one unit. Most M conversions copy what the factory did and to find service information look for a 400 or 450 service manual. The setup is the same.
On the tank, what you can't see is that there is a pipe welded on behind the liquid valve that goes to the bottom of the tank. The vapor valve has a pipe that goes to the top of the tank.
Could you post a photo showing the carb side of the tractor?
Personally, I would lose the magneto and change to a battery ignition regardless. Another thing to try (as Nicholson suggested) is to take the intake pipe off the carb and squirt a little gasoline in and see if it hits.
The fuel filter probably needs to be changed but if you're getting anything through then it should be enough to start; you'll have plenty of pressure with a full tank.
The regulator and vaporizer are combined in one unit. Most M conversions copy what the factory did and to find service information look for a 400 or 450 service manual. The setup is the same.
On the tank, what you can't see is that there is a pipe welded on behind the liquid valve that goes to the bottom of the tank. The vapor valve has a pipe that goes to the top of the tank.
Could you post a photo showing the carb side of the tractor?
Let me make sure I understand. You put a jumper wire from your positive side on your 12 volt battery and to the Coil ? Then remove it after it starts? Does it not start if you do not use the jumper wire?
I checked by taking out a spark plug and laying it next to the frame with the spark plug wire attached. I then cranked and it is getting a good strong spark. It seems to me if it is getting a good strong spark from the plug, it would be getting enough electricity to start. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am also attaching photos. Can anyone tell me what the knob below my ampres gauge if for? Letters O, D, and B. What is that for? It has 3 letters on it . see photo. Another question I have is, What about the inline filter? Seems like if the filter is clogged up, that might prevent a quick start? I have not checked the filter to see if it is dirty but that is my next move.
I checked by taking out a spark plug and laying it next to the frame with the spark plug wire attached. I then cranked and it is getting a good strong spark. It seems to me if it is getting a good strong spark from the plug, it would be getting enough electricity to start. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am also attaching photos. Can anyone tell me what the knob below my ampres gauge if for? Letters O, D, and B. What is that for? It has 3 letters on it . see photo. Another question I have is, What about the inline filter? Seems like if the filter is clogged up, that might prevent a quick start? I have not checked the filter to see if it is dirty but that is my next move.
Hugh McKinney
Member
Yep, every bit of that, filter, regulator/vaporizer, carb, they are all Ensign units. You can get pretty good kits to rebuild your Ensign reg/vap unit from Everhart in Oklahoma. I have installed the kit in mine but haven't put it on yet, still using an Impco. But keep in mind that if you truly suspect a problem with the fuel system, you can always temporarily, I say, temporarily, bypass the filter, and also borrow an Impco regulator/vaporizer just to see if that does the trick. Not that difficult, even though it will not look very tidy
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
Except for the tank, All those parts were sourced from a factory Lp tractor. With the valves off, loosen the line coming out of the top of the filter and then turn on one of the valves a little bit and see if fuel is getting through.
Since you have a good hot spark we can eliminate that as a problem. The jumper wire would be to bypass the ignition resistor in a battery type ignition system.
The regulator may be sticking a little bit. The regulator needs a little bit of a vacuum signal to open up and start metering fuel. I still say take the air cleaner pipe loose at the carb and squirt a little gasoline in there and see if it hits. You may get enough vacuum then to get the regulator going again.
The knob is for the lights: "O"ff, "D"im, and "B"right.
Since you have a good hot spark we can eliminate that as a problem. The jumper wire would be to bypass the ignition resistor in a battery type ignition system.
The regulator may be sticking a little bit. The regulator needs a little bit of a vacuum signal to open up and start metering fuel. I still say take the air cleaner pipe loose at the carb and squirt a little gasoline in there and see if it hits. You may get enough vacuum then to get the regulator going again.
The knob is for the lights: "O"ff, "D"im, and "B"right.
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