4th/5th gear (PIC)

Here is the 4/5 gear, one corner seems to be rounded. With it in 5th gear it doesn't seem to engage the drive shaft completely, you can see about an 1/8to 1/4" gap that seems to be picked up my the shifter when I pull back on it but as soon as I let it go the gear slides out a little and I imagine this is when it jumps out of gear.

My question, does it look like my problem is the gear (the gear does have some slight left to right movement, very little but movement none the less) or is it in the shifter?

I have a couple of tractors with actual gears worn a lot more than that and they work fine. 5th is the splined male shaft that slides into a female shaft not in the picture. I can't really tell but some of the splines look ok, some don't, you have to take the non pictured shaft into consideration also.

Like CNKS said, 5th is on the inside and we can't see it. Did you check your detent balls?

The least invasive is to try to push the gear forward some. To do that the shifter fork would need to be built up on the side toward the gear, and then some material removed from the opposite side to push forward on the gear. Another method is to remake the detent pocket in the 4/5 shift rail. the pocket could be welded shut and a new pocket milled in about 3/16 farther to the rear allowing the ball detent to place the gear farther forward.
Both of these steps require the removal of the trans top to access the rail/fork/detent. Jim

I'm new to all of this, how do you check the detent balls?

Like CNKS says can't see the female socket that the gear slides in to for 5th gear. I'm betting the teeth on that female socket are worn to nearly nothing from grinding on shift from 4 to 5th gear. Only fix is to replace the gear which has the female splines inside it. If those female splines are worn out, the tractor will pop out of 5th gear under any load at all.

5th gear on the Farmall h and Farmall M is not obtained like the first 4 speeds are. Gears 1-4 are actually different size gear sets that mesh together to change the ratios inside the tranny. 5th gear does not involve gears meshing at all per say. It is obtained by locking the shafts to form a sorta direct drive. (Cheap way to get a 5th speed without adding the cost, weight,and space that another gear set would consume - so it is clever in a way).

When you move the shifter into 5th gear it does not move as much as it does in the other 4 gears. (maybe half as much).

That said you do have a problem. As has been pointed out already. I would check the end of shifter rod (build up and reshape to size with braze or weld as required). I would remove the slop from the shifter (see sloppy shifter fix on ebay). From there I would look at what these other guys are telling yah about the detents....or more likely in the mechanism/splines that lock that shaft for the direct drive for the 5th speed.

(quoted from post at 15:58:31 07/16/13) I'm new to all of this, how do you check the detent balls?

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Sorry, I was thinking you had the lid off the trans and couldn't see the problem. You will find 5th worn out by my guess. To check the balls you have a to pull the shift rails. 3/6 were bad on my H.

(quoted from post at 15:58:31 07/16/13) I'm new to all of this, how do you check the detent balls?

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Sorry, I was thinking you had the lid off the trans and couldn't see the problem. You will find 5th worn out by my guess. To check the balls you have a to pull the shift rails. 3/6 were bad on my H.

Small holes in the trans cover hold modest springs that push on steel balls. These balls fall into pockets in the rails and locate the rail in gear, or in neutral. There are 6. Cover must be off to check them. Jim

What everyone else said, also put trans back in 4th and get a giant screwdriver or tire tool and pressure the end of the mainshaft just to see how much play there really is in the pilot bearing.

You could have a compound problem of worn bearing and worn internal teeth for road gear. An old M will put up with a lot of bearing play though and still function well. The rounded tooth ends are from the factory, but sometimes they get more worn from grinding gears. Those look good.

Thanks for the education gentlemen, I'll try the shifter first and see how that goes. worst case I'll have to drive the 2 miles to the farm in 4th gear, nice ride but in 4th it takes forever...thanks again guys, we'll talk again soon I'm sure lol ~Anthony

(quoted from post at 16:00:25 07/16/13) Here is the 4/5 gear, one corner seems to be rounded. With it in 5th gear it doesn't seem to engage the drive shaft completely, you can see about an 1/8to 1/4" gap that seems to be picked up my the shifter when I pull back on it but as soon as I let it go the gear slides out a little and I imagine this is when it jumps out of gear.

My question, does it look like my problem is the gear (the gear does have some slight left to right movement, very little but movement none the less) or is it in the shifter?

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Any sliding & engaging gears will have a profile on their leading edge. Getting into gear would be a PITA otherwise. So what you are seeing is how they were made.

Shift the 4th and 5th slider back in the picture.
Look at the teeth ends for worn off at a steep angle and a lot shorter than new. Unless the shift lever is worn really bad its not the problem. Shift rails have a long notch that stops them when the end of notch is reached. No matter how far you move the rail with the shifter when it reaches the end of the notch its stopped. Rails also have notches for spring loaded balls to go in when a gear is selected. When you say the 4th, 5th slider moves back when hand is removed its probably just the ball and notch going together.
If the sliding gear is not engaging as much as its supposed to. Shift fork is worn or bent. Or the input shaft is going to far forward. Put everything in neutral. Reach through the belt pulley hole and raise up and down on the transmission shaft. Excess movement? push the input shaft forward, back and wiggle around. Excess play?

If the picture is as far forward as the slider will go, and if nothing else is in bad shape this sometimes gives a little more life to 5th gear. First put the gears in neutral. notice how much space is between the slider gear splines and the input shaft splines. Next notice how much the input shaft can be moved rearward and still have good mesh with the constant mesh gear, also need space so the pulley drive gear doesn't contact it.
Remove the input shaft with housing from the tractor through the center housing bottom. Notice in the pictures the spacer between the bearings. You can add shims or a spacer between the spacer and bearings. Long as it doesn't cause a problem in the other places you can move the shaft back to get almost full contact with the splines with this method. Also a good time to see if you have a problem on those parts. Snap ring on the front bearing, a recess and the front seal retainer places the input shaft in position. good time to check the parts. Pictures are of one I removed to install a 9 speed trans parts. They are not in the best shape but stayed in gear okay. Didn't say before but the reason for the neutral space check is so the splines don't contact if moving the input shaft rearward. Also make sure the main shaft pilot bearing retaining bolt clears inside the input shaft.

Dang, getting a little personal :0)

Gene