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question for I-H dealer tech or anyone

E

el6147

Member
was there any international tractors in the 464-484-584 family of tractors (farm or industrial)that used a auxiliary hydraulic valve that was a closed center valve . what I have is a valve that was purchased by the tractor owner many years ago form a salvage yard and it appears to be a closed center valve and the 464 that he would like it installed on requires an open center valve. thanks Phil
 
thanks for the response Bill, let me rephrase my question . I have what appears to be a closed center valve , What model tractor could it have been installed on that has the same similar hydraulics as the 464 ?
 
A closed center valve on anything but a very late big frame IH and big articulated tractors or Post Merger CaseIH, will dead head the hydraulics, Opinion based on when IH started using closed center variable output pumps and systems. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 19:14:14 07/12/13) A closed center valve on anything but a very late big frame IH and big articulated tractors or Post Merger CaseIH, will dead head the hydraulics, Opinion based on when IH started using closed center variable output pumps and systems. Jim
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you still have a relief valve on variable output systems?

You can't see what the center of a valve is unless there is a diagram on it. Even pulling the spool isn't a dead give away.
 
(quoted from post at 19:14:14 07/12/13) A closed center valve on anything but a very late big frame IH and big articulated tractors or Post Merger CaseIH, will dead head the hydraulics, Opinion based on when IH started using closed center variable output pumps and systems. Jim
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you still have a relief valve on variable output systems?

You can't see what the center of a valve is unless there is a diagram on it. Even pulling the spool isn't a dead give away.
 
A person cannot blow through a closed center valve. The open center hydraulics would flow all oil through the relief valve, making the engine labor, and the oil heat to beat the band. Just not good. Jim
 
The late 86 series tractors could have had closed center so that would put it at around the early to mid-80's. Don't know about the smaller ones. Jim
 
Good way to explain it Jim. You can blow through an open center when in the neutral or center position but not a closed center valve.
 
(quoted from post at 23:37:32 07/12/13) The late 86 series tractors could have had closed center so that would put it at around the early to mid-80's. Don't know about the smaller ones. Jim
Click to expand...

The X00, X50, X60, series tractors all used closed center valves with an unloading valve to allow the flow to bypass the valves when they were not on demand. Because it was a hybrid system you need to consider the entire system as an open center system if you are going to add additional valves off the couplers of the original valves.
 
(quoted from post at 19:50:38 07/12/13) A person cannot blow through a closed center valve. The open center hydraulics would flow all oil through the relief valve, making the engine labor, and the oil heat to beat the band. Just not good. Jim
Click to expand...

Why would an open center flow all the oil through the relief valve? I was taught it would flow from P to T, A, and B in the second position of the valve.

Sorry I forgot about blowing on the valve. I don't really like the taste of hydraulic fluid.

 
My wording can be construed in two ways. I was not clear. If a closed center valve is used on an open center system was what I meant. Jim
 
Are you sure it is not set up as a power beyond valve. A power beyond has three ports (not counting the ones to the cylinders). You have Pressure, Return, and Power beyond. P and R work like any valve as long as a spool is shifted. Flow from the pump moves the clylinder and oil returning from the other side goes to Return. When all the spool(s) are in Neutral, the pump flow goes out the Power Beyond port to the valves down stream.

Power Beyond valves typically are plumbed into the circuit between the pump and the original control valves.
 
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