300U pto revisted

Finally got some free time to work on this today. First problem, there are NO punch marks that I can see on the pawl or quadrant as referenced in the manuals. I verified the parts in the parts manual and believe I am looking at the the right parts. Can't find punch marks and a second set of eyes confirmed it for me. That being said, I got it as close to center as possible and adjusted per the manual...no luck. Cannot turn shaft with PTO engaged and it turns in center and turns in disengaged positions. Looking at the post Jim N put up for me a while back I see his method is a little different than the manual and would like to try it. Here is an excerpt:

"There is a mark on the lever base (manual)
that is midway from locked on, to locked off with the button on the handle. If you cannot find the marks, measure the lever travel and put it at 1/2 way.
In this position, adjust the bands (seperately) (under the little peanut shaped cover on the top)
until each is tight enough to prevent rotating the shaft by hand with a channel lock pliers."

Not trying to be thick, but how do I adjust the bands separately? Once one has stopped the rotation, how do I adjust the other? I have other issues but I'll start there. Maybe that will solve my problem. Just not understanding what he is saying and any clarification appreciated.

Hi, Dave.

I know exactly what you mean. Been there, done that with a 300U and a 350U.

As for the punch marks, I couldn't find them on either tractor to save my life. I just centered the control lever between the limits of its travel as Jim suggested. Then I adjusted the band screws until they each had the same number of threads showing when producing just a little drag on the shaft. In other words, I made sure I didn't start off with one screw sticking way out and the other screw way in. So as a starting point, I had the lever centered and the bands just loose and symmetrical.

Now as you know, the problem is when you have one band holding tight you can't tell when the other band is also holding tight because it could be the first band or both of them.

I adjusted the first band until tight, then backed it off (counting by 1/4 turns) until the shaft just turned freely. Then I did the same with the second band, backing it off the same number of turns as the first band. Then I held the screws while I tightened the lock nuts. This way both bands were just loose at mid-lever travel, and adjusted symmetrically.

Mark W. in MI

The bands are independent of each other, it doesn't make any difference which one is tight or loose. You adjust them as Jim says, with the lever in the middle then try to turn one with the lever locked down and the other with the lever locked up. If not successful after you use an implement and can't get it to work you need to replace the bands.

Well, first off, the number of threads means nothing as the bands wear at a different rate. You adjust both until just snugged down, no lever movement with centered. Forget about the punch marks if they are not visible. Then back each one off same amount like try one turn. With lever still centered you should be able to turn the shaft with a short 5 inch punch. Channel lock works fine. If you can not readily turn shaft, back both screws out equal amount until you can turn shaft. Then lock it down. You should not be able to turn shaft in either position, engaged or disengaged. Also, no significant drag on engine when running with lever disengaged for engaged. Most likely will make more noise in the disengaged position as planatery gears are turning faster then.

Appreciate the responses. I played with this a bit after I posted, trying to figure it out. The problem here is that the PTO shaft spins with the PTO lever disengaged (locked down). This is obviously a problem so following the manuals and trying to decipher what Jim told me I am trying to adjust the bands. When done, the PTO shaft will not turn by hand with the PTO engaged. With PTO disengaged the shaft will turn. I turned the forward adjustment down and made the PTO not turn when disengaged and then checked mid range...it turned. Go back to disengaged and now it turns also. NO matter what, when you turn on the tractor the PTO spins when disengaged. At one point I adjusted the back screw down with tractor running and the PTO stopped (disengaged). I could hear a noise like something was rubbing so I backed it off and it turned again. Not sure what to think. This is a simple adjustment by all accounts but it is really messing with my head. I just want the thing to not turn when it is disengaged and have some guts when it is. Seems like it should not be so hard.

Hi, Pete.

You answered a question I was about to ask! I had noticed the PTO on my 350U was just slightly louder when in the stopped position. It's good to know that's normal.

As for the number of threads, you're right. It's sort of splitting hairs, but I like to start with the secondary brake band operating lever (inside the rear housing) as close to horizontal as I can get it. That's just my personal preference -- if one band were worn way more than the other one, I would agree that may not be optimal.

Mark W. in MI

Hi again, Dave.

Not sure this will help any, but there is a small lever inside the rear housing that acts like a see-saw, tightening the front band as it loosens the rear band, and tightening the rear band as it loosens the front band. So although the bands technically act independently of each other, they are not actuated independently -- they are simultaneously actuated in opposite directions (tight vs. loose).

You're looking for the "sweet spot" where the handle is at mid-travel and the see-saw has allowed both bands to be just barely loose enough to not produce any noticeable drag.

It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it, and I think you'll get it with a little more tinkering.

One thing: The entire linkage, from the actuating handle to the rear housing, should have absolutely no slop.

Please keep us posted.

Mark W. in MI

Imagine two flat pulleys with brake bands on them, one that makes it drive the PTO, holds a gear so it forces the shaft to turn. The other is just a brake on that shaft. The lever chooses between the two options. The mid position should just allow both to be able to turn. When locked down, the brake is applied and the drive band is released even further.
When the lever is up, the drive band is tightened and the brake is released more. Make sure there is Hytran in the unit. The tightness of the bands is the key, in that mid position they should both be dragging just a little. Jim

Exactly good addition. Jim

Alrighty! Thank you both! I am just beginning to get the idea of how this works and it is a LOT easier to fix something if you understand the processes involved. Frankly, I am surprised I am having this issue. The tractor had a lot of work done before the PO passed away. Near as I can tell this is the only serious issue it has. I will be looking at this again in the late afternoon when someone shows up to hold the arm centered for me. I will post back on a new thread with the results...good, bad or indifferent.