Red knowledge help C123

Dear Red Men,I am restoring a 48 super A serial#263744 I am told my C123 engine is suppost to have a water pump.Engine casting #366204-R3 No prefix lettering Please help me out. Mike from South Jersey

Mike, 48 SA 113 engine no water pump.
oldiron29

Hi Mike. I am not an expert down to specific serial numbers (and don't have my references currently on hand), but to elaborate slightly, I do know that the SA (and B, BN, or SC) from about '53 and earlier was originally a C113, which was "thermosiphon" only (no water pump). If you had water pump (and an oil dipstick rather than only test cocks on the oil pan), the engine would have been replaced with a newer one.

It is possible to put 3 1/8" sleeves and pistons in the 3" bore C113 to boost the cid to 123, but you wouldn't know if it has already been done unless you pull the head to measure.

If you are doing a restore, or just looking for parts to make it work, an invaluable resource is the TC-39 parts book (available from the YT store here) which gives original and updated part numbers for the SA.

Enjoy your SA - they are amazing little tractors.
Well Worn

That is not the original engine, it probably came from a 100, 130, or 140, not sure. Those 3 tractors and the Super A1 came with a water pump. On your tractor you do not necessarily need a water pump, you do need a gasket with larger openings for better flow with thermosiphon. What I am not sure of is whether the water passages on your engine are smaller than the ones that are strickly thermosiphon. If that is the case then the head gasket will do you no good and you DO need a water pump. Someone else (Jim Becker?) will have to answer that as I am not sure which tractor your engine came from.

Yeah, what CNKS said. As far as I know, the newer block and head castings all had passages large enough to take advantage of the thermo-syphon head gasket. Use the right head gasket without a water pump and you will be fine.

All the headgaskets ive used in the last 20 or so yrs being Fell-Pro i dont see any difference in the water outlet or even the head or block so just what bolck has the larger opening and which has the smaller. I have blocks and heads up to 54 code dates with no difference in the openings. Even have a head before the opening was made larger for the sparkplug. Some are from power units also.

I built a 366204 R1 for my 49 Super A. Out of all the blocks I have looked at in the early off sets I have never seen an 366204 R3. I have probably looked at a hundred blocks. Found my first 379171 R2 over the weekend.

I used a water pump. I mated the 366204R1 block to a Super A head and when I ordered the head gasket a told the parts guy to order a gasket set for A 130.

I built a motor using a 140 crank and cam, 130 block and Super A head. The motor I had built runs like a sewing machine. I used a water pump cause I thought it would be best and the "glub glub" of the thermosiphen just bugged me.

I don't think it is possible to order the 3" sleeves any more and if there is a slim chance you find them I doubt they will fit the block you have now.

In response to CNKS, that block (366204R1)did not come from a 140. My guess is a power unit or replacement block.

Switching over to a water pump has been a pita, but I just like it better and with the electronic ignition and the hotter plugs, it can't hurt. My tractor runs very, very cool. Of course my block and head were dipped before the build to get rid of all the crusties.