Precision Tools

d282

Member
I would like to start doing some measuring of engine parts instead of relying on the machine shop and plastigage all of the time. What tools do you have and what brand do you recommend?

Dial Caliper for general measuring
Micrometer to measure bearings and the crankshaft
Bore Gage to measure the cylinder bores 2"-6"
Long feeler gages to measure piston clearance in the sleeve.
(Am I correct on the above, and what else should I have?)
Thanks!
 
I bought a NAPA dial caliper for $2 at a yard sale, it worked great for years but I have not been able to find it for a few months, may need to buy a new one if it doesn't turn up soon.
Zach
 
A dial indicator for checking runout and such is useful. A big chunk of flat granite would be nice to have as would a selection of gage blocks and bars (they needn"t be toolroom quality).
 
I have purchased a couple of indicators from Anytime Tool Co. and have been very satisfied with the quality. They sell mostly American made tools. One was a Fowler. I also purchased a set of mics from Shars, made in China, but appears to be very good quality for under $100.

http://www.shars.com/product_categories/view/5/Measuring_Tools
Anytime Tool Co.
 
(quoted from post at 09:05:33 01/08/13) I would like to start doing some measuring of engine parts instead of relying on the machine shop and plastigage all of the time. What tools do you have and what brand do you recommend?

Dial Caliper for general measuring
Micrometer to measure bearings and the crankshaft
Bore Gage to measure the cylinder bores 2"-6"
Long feeler gages to measure piston clearance in the sleeve.
(Am I correct on the above, and what else should I have?)
Thanks!

Well, the real question here is how much money do you want to spend? Starrett is the "US" brand, although they now have a made in china line of tools at a lower price- I can't comment on the quality of the chineese line. Mitutoyo is another Quality brand, mostly made in Japan, some is made in US and Brazil. Brown and Sharpe is also very good stuff- Made is Switzerland or USA. Many old toolmakers swear by swiss made tools. I have some of all of the above, (except the chineese Starrett)and even some Lufkin- if you come by that, it's good too- and old! A few guys at work collect Lufkin- made right here in MI! Old Fowler stuff is Ok, new stuff is chineese so-so.

I'd look for used "brand name" tools rather than new- you won't need new. That being said, for the most part, new Chineese made tools will work well enough for you. What tool catalogs do you get? Production tool is a local company to me (the shop I work for uses them), There are places like Penn Tool and MSC that are "nationwide" retailers. (all of above can be found on the web.) I personally would watch Ebay or go to some yard sales, etc, and buy used name brand tools. Expect to pay about 1/2 price of new- kind of an industry standard for used precision tools.

You'll need a set of Micrometers up through 3" I believe, and a set of gauge blocks to set up your bore gauge- unless you choose to set it over your mic's. A bore gauge is nice, but you'd do just fine with Micrometers and good telescoping gauges. (might also cost you a little less, but then you'll need a bigger mic set.) Telescoping gauges do wear out- be careful. But, you can "R+R" an old set by taking them apart and honing off the burrs that wear onto them- I did that with an old Lufkin set, they now work pretty well. Dial calipers- I'd buy new, you'll use it lots, IMHO Brown and Sharpe is the nicest. You may also want a set of depth mics, for measuring sleeve protrusion above the deck, and counterbore depth on wet sleeves. You can use your good calipers for this, though. :)

Sorry for the long post, Machinist by trade here, and as with anything, I'm no expert, but I'll share what I know. Any more questions, Just ask! -Andy
 
That list would get you in the ballpark, you may like to have a longish straight edge too. I have all slighlty older Central mics, from 0 to 1 inch up to 4-5 inch, they are good tools for me. I also have a bore gauge,snap gauges and straight edges,dial calipers and dial indicators. I have been able to everything I need to with these tools. I too double check everything the machine shop does,and on rare occasions have found problems. I have one Fowler mic too, it seems a little less quality but not chinsy to me. Poor quality cheap tools are as bad as not having any at all IMO.
 
The feeler gauge ribbon fit thing also needs a spring scale and that method has long since been replaced with a set of inside and outside Mic.'s and a bore gauge . The next biggy is a accurate set of standards and knowing how to check and adjust your mic.'s And using a good machine shop that knows what is going on and how to do the job right the first time is the big plus . I know of three that i can trust and have it dead nuts on when done. With somethings i have to explain the firsts job but not after . But i do have all the tools needed . I just don't have the equipment to do it myself. Two things i would have like to have in my younger days (1) a complete automotive machine shop and (2) and injection shop . Had the chance on the machine shop when my close friend had his health problems as he was getting bigger with at the time the best money could by as he had some pieces that nobody had this side of the big Creek . The state of the art stationary boring bar and a line bore that could do a 16 cylinder engine and a crank and cam grinder . along with other stuff . The seat and guide set up was great . I could run a flywheel up there and if Dick was busy he would say you know where the grinder is and you know how to use it or he would have me do something else while he was doing a line bore fore me as that is one operation i had never done .
 
As a precision toolmaker, here is my input:

As said before, Starrett, Browne and Sharp and Mitutoyo are your top of the line precision tools. I have mostly Mitutoyo with some Starrett mixed in at work and we work with tolerances of .0001" and smaller every day.

MSC has a nice selection but they are pricey. Enco is a good supplier that usually has better pricing. I usually do my shopping in the MSC big book, get the part number for what I want and then go to ebay for the best pricing.

Be very careful if you are buying used! As said these are presicion tools and you wont know how used ones will have been used or taken care of. Dropped micrometers can be "sprung". Dial calipers can have broken teath and on and on. I would strongly recommend spending the extra money for new if your going to do it. Make sure you buy micrometers with carbide faces and ones that comes with standards so you can keep the adjusted. I would recommend digital calipers over dial just for ease of use...get the coolant/oil proof ones. Could probably save some money if you went with telescoping gages over a dial bore gage although its kind of an art to use and measure them correctly with micrometers.
 
As a long time journeyman tool & diemaker, I have definite preference for American made instruments. I have the same set of Starett 0-1" mics that I started with in 1964 and they are as good as ever. I have a lot of Mitutoyo , Lufkin tools as well and they are good too. Fowler dial indicators seem good too. The major issue with any precision tool is the skill of the operator. I can take anyones mics and cheat .001"-.002" without any one noticing. I can mount a dial indicator on a wobbly base and get any reading you want. I would rather have a skilled careful person use an obsolete set of vernier calipers than a tyro with the best set of digitals in the world. I carried a set of vernier calipers in my pocket for 25 years and if I needed anything more precise, then I got out the good stuff. It saved a lot of steps, and besides the battery never went dead, and cutting oil and water never bothered them. Whatever you decide, spend the time and money to learn how to use it right. Good luck with it, learning is always good,
Paul
 
No matter how much money you spend, you will still end up with spoiled work if you don't have the "feel". You can't tighten up a mic like a C-clamp on a telescoping gauge and expect to end up with any useful information. You have to be even more spiritual when transferring measurements from firm-joint calipers because of the springing of the caliper. It takes a long time to learn. I've seen guys set valves, for example, with a fierce drag on the feeler blade, under the assumption that heavy drag means accuracy. Now .001-.002" won' matter much here, of course, but on a lathe it could mean polishing the work to size or scrapping it.
 
Don"t forget to get a Machinery"s handbook. And get two; the newest version, and an old version (pre-1968). They leave out some good, obsolete information in the newer versions. I have a 13th edition, and a 28th Edition, myself. I use them at work almost everyday, where we have a mix of old machine tools and new machine tools.

A set of gauge blocks, or some standards, to practice measuring on would be handy,as you can then find out what your "feel" is with different measuring tools.

If you order new tools like you mentioned, get ones with some calibrated standards; otherwise you are in the dark.

Best of luck!!
 
Thanks for all your replies and suggestions. I plan to buy the best as money and the need arises. I will start with the two machinists handbooks. Looking forward to learn something new! Again thanks.
 
(quoted from post at 12:34:23 01/09/13) Don"t forget to get a Machinery"s handbook. And get two; the newest version, and an old version (pre-1968). They leave out some good, obsolete information in the newer versions. I have a 13th edition, and a 28th Edition, myself. I use them at work almost everyday, where we have a mix of old machine tools and new machine tools.

A set of gauge blocks, or some standards, to practice measuring on would be handy,as you can then find out what your "feel" is with different measuring tools.

If you order new tools like you mentioned, get ones with some calibrated standards; otherwise you are in the dark.

Best of luck!!

This is the book we are supposed to have for school. Is it any good? I see the edition number is not as high as you mentioned so it must not be the same book. Can't say much about it yet. I don't start class until next Thursday.

TITLE:Machinists' Ready Reference
AUTHOR:Weingartner
EDITION:9th
COPYRIGHT YEAR:2008
PUBLISHER:prakken Publications, Incorporated
ISBN:9780970339805


Edit - I did a Google search. Yours is a different book. It looks like it has twice as many pages as the Bible! That is a big book!!!
 

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