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my stuck 140, update

P

PretendFarmer

Well-known Member
Ok. So I soaked it for a day. After some rocking, I decided to take a closer look in the cylinders. 2,3, and 4, no rust. Number 1 appears to be rusty. I took a small tool, and felt around inside and I could feel the rust inside. So I pulled the head. Number one was rusted good. Exhaust valve is rusted open. I soaked it in pb blast oil and I will try to free it up, and pull it out. Gonna need the head redone.
 
I had one like that had to make a tool and press the sleeve and piston out together then bust the sleeve to get the rod off the piston.
 
So your saying that the piston won't free up from the sleeve? How hard is it to get those sleeves out? Was this tractor supposed to come with flat top pistons? It does not.
 
#1 get rid of the PB blaster ATF has been proven to work better and cheaper to boot. As for the piston and sleeve I do not know it it is a wet or dry sleeve engine. If a wet sleeve and it does not free up and it is in such a place that by getting the crank to turn may push it up and out. BTDT on one engine that I had that was stuck. You can also try the ATF and a tablespoon of gas then light that mix up if you can do so safely. Keep adding gas to it when it goes out till you get almost all the ATf burned out then try the starter and a 12 volt battery with short fast taps of the starter. also BTDT
 
A lot of times the sleeve will slide out pretty easy, then you can press the piston out. It may or may not have come with flat top pistons, not a thing wrong with high tops. Stick with the PBlaster, ATF doesn't work.
 

There must be a reason why there is hightop and not flat pistons. I cant imagine it is "just for the hell of it"...

I plan on getting a wood block, and tapping it from the top.
 
The high top piston raises the compression ratio, so as a general rule you can make more horsepower, that is why they are popular. If you are using the tractor in a high altitude area the higher compression will make up some of the power loss from the thin air. It will help a bunch if you can get the connecting rod loose, then when you are tapping from the top you won't be pounding the rod bearing and the piston and rod will have somewhere to go. If it has any real rust you are going to want to clean the piston and rings anyway.
 
I told you in a previous posting to use a piece of oak wood and a big hammer and drive out the sleeves and pistons. Use an acetylene torch to heat the old sleeves to free the pistons. You can use the old connecting rods on your new pistons/sleeve kits. Pull the engine and crankshaft and have it measured for wear. It may just need polishing and buy your bearings from the auto machine shop. Pull the clutch and see if it needs rebuilding. Hal
 
PretendFarmer,

Take it easy man! I get the feeling that you're over-reacting to every little tidbit of information you receive.

Right off the bat here you should realize there are no guarantees either way, and there's more than one way to skin this cat.

gene says PB is no good, use ATF. Arnold says ATF is no good, use PB. That's a dead giveaway right there that there's more than one answer.

Frankly it doesn't matter what you use as long as you use SOMETHING.

The piston might come loose, it might not. You won't know until you try.

Where is the piston in the stroke? If it's near the top or the bottom, pounding down from the top is only going to break something.

Try pounding down but if it doesn't come right away, STOP. If you keep hitting harder and harder, you may drive the sleeve out the bottom, breaking the block in the process. The whole assembly needs to come out the top at that point. It's a wet sleeve engine so it should come out fairly easily.
 
Here are the pics....
13616.jpg
 
Yup, there wasn't any soaking that one loose...

Is all the antifreeze because you didn't drain the block before you pulled the head?
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:48 01/08/13) That is correct. I didnt drain the block.
Click to expand...

You're supposed to do that.

Now I would drain the coolant that is still in there. Then I would shop vac out all the oily coolant mess that is on the cyls. Then proceed from there.
 
I haven't had one of those apart in 20 years so I can't remember if the sleeve stick past the bottom of the cylinders. If they do, You could try this SLEEVE PUSHER. I used it on a Cockshutt engine and took the sleeves and pistons out easy. The tractor had sat in a pasture uncovered for a long long time.
Try this. It looks like the sleeve protrudes out of the bottom of the engine just a little. The rectangular tube slips over the rod and pushes up on the bottom of the sleeve. It only has to move a little bit then the sleeve will come right out. Put some spacers between the top of the block and the 2" square tube to give the sleeve room to raise up.
id12071.jpg

id12072.jpg

sleeve pusher
 
That looks very very bad and the sleeve it toast on that one cylinder as pitted as it is. Bite the bullet and pull the pan off. If I knew from sure it is a wet sleeve engine I could help you more but I do not know if it is. I did a B engine that was that bad and now have it fixed and used only used parts other then the sleeve O-Rings
 
If it has wet sleeves pulling the sleeve and piston as a unit is pretty easy. You just have to find a oak piece of wood that you can fit up from the bottom and hammer the sleeve up till it is free and from there it will come right out
 
I will do that I think. I was thinking about honing that sleeve but why bother when I can just get a whole piston kit from here for 87 bucks pls 5 dollar seal and shipping.
It is a wet sleeve engine.
 
Sort of funny how people do not read the charts that have been posted with the finding of the many oils used to break things free and ATF/Acetone have been proven to work better then the top high $$ stuff
 
(quoted from post at 09:57:38 01/08/13) I will do that I think. I was thinking about honing that sleeve but why bother when I can just get a whole piston kit from here for 87 bucks pls 5 dollar seal and shipping.
It is a wet sleeve engine.
Click to expand...

Not worth the time for that kind of money. The tractor I am working on is more in the range of $1200.
 
Just be careful not bugger up the crank shaft when you pop that sleeve out. When I built my BA I pulled the sleeve out of the B block which was locked up real bad and dropped in the sleeve out of the A block I had, the A block was broken in more then one place. so I took 2 engines and built one good engine and pretty much only used new parts when I could not get by with used one. I even used a used head gasket and that was 2 years ago and ran it all summer this past summer
 
(quoted from post at 09:58:18 01/08/13) Sort of funny how people do not read the charts that have been posted with the finding of the many oils used to break things free and ATF/Acetone have been proven to work better then the top high $$ stuff
Click to expand...

Frankly I didn't put a whole lot of stock in that because it wasn't a scientific test.

There's no way to prove that each bolt was rusted to the same extent. You can have two identical bolts side-by-side on a tractor. One will come right out, one will twist off.

All it would've taken is a little dumb luck and plain old WD-40 would've been proven to be the best.
 
(quoted from post at 19:47:48 01/08/13) For 1 cylinder, yes, but that engine needs to be
rebuilt.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. From what I have seen so far, I dont think so. Sure I could pull all the sleeves and put new ones in, but there was barely any ridge on them. I am feeling that it isnt needed to replace all the sleeves and pistons.
I gotta pull the pan, and go from there.
 
As black as that head is, its either burning oil, or something on all of the cylinders. But its your, if you want to go that route, have at it.
 
You need to clean that block area where the seals are installed. You will probably find rust and crud. It will also let the new seals seal so you don't have coolant seeping into the pan. Hal
 

Got the oil pan off last night. Took the connecting rod off the crank. After that, the engine moved very effortlessly. I tried to pound out number one sleeve with the piston, no luck yet. I will pound her good tonight...
 
Got the piston and sleeve out. I used a hammer drill on the hammer only setting. It did not come out easy thats for sure. The piston started moving up but got jammed up on the rust. The sleeve came loose after alot of hammering. What a workout that was.
It is the 3 1/8" stepped piston. Is there any reason to believe that the sleeve and piston kit here is not the correct one?
 
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