300 TA or clutch problem, I think

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

I was plowing snow again today with the 300 and had been out about 10 minutes when I heard several clunks and stepped on the clutch. I was not able to let up on the clutch without killing the engine. The engine runs normally with the pedal down. The IPTO works normally. When I shut the tractor down and blocked the clutch I was able to push the tractor ahead a few feet with the transmission in neutral and everything was normal. The transmission shifts through all gears normally. I took the cover off the TA clutch and looked in there. With the clutch pedal blocked I could rotate the TA in one direction but the TA clutch disk did not move. With the clutch pedal back I could not rotate the TA by hand in either direction. With the pedal blocked I put the tractor in 1st gear and rocked it back and forth, when the TA flywheel turned one way the clutch disk would turn the other way. I removed the clutch inspection cover and everything looked normal. I am wondering if I have a ramp/rollers problem or some other kind of TA problem and if there is anything I can try short of double splitting the tractor again. I had it apart in the summer and can do it again but of course I would rather not if it could be helped. Any advice will be very much appreciated.
Zach

Bill in IL · Jan 4, 2013

Sounds like your TA is working properly. Its suppose to only turn one way.

mkirsch · Jan 4, 2013

Ramp and rollers problem would not cause the engine to stall when you let out the clutch.

Being stuck in two gears would.

I'm not really sure if your troubleshooting of the TA is telling you anything useful. The planetary should rotate in one direction and not the other with the tractor in neutral and your foot off the clutch pedal.

You said "all was normal" does that mean you're back up and running?

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

Thank you very much for the help, it is not up and running. I
was able to push the tractor into the shed with the other tractor,
so it is out of the snow. I just went out and tried it again and I
was not able to turn the TA in either direction with the clutch
pedal back. With the pedal blocked I could turn the TA one way,
but the TA clutch disk did not turn. It was stiff to turn by hand
with the TA lever forward and easy to turn with the TA lever
back. I can't seem to get clear in my own mind about what the
TA clutch disk is connected to, I seem to recall from when I was
working on the tractor that when I would turn the TA by hand the
TA clutch disk turned along with the rest of it.
Zach

pete 23 · Jan 4, 2013

Take the belt pulley plate off. Then you can see the constant mesh gear on top and bottom shafts. The top one is out put of ta and should be free when clutch is released, pushed and held down. You should be able to see what is going on from there.

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

Thank you, I will do that. I have the belt pulley unit in place so I think I will have to lift the hydraulic unit first in order to get the long screws out and to get the gear past the casting.
Zach

D Slater · Jan 4, 2013

T/A clutch disc is splined onto the sun or input shaft of the T/A. Unless splines are striped when the T/A clutch plate turns the shaft going into the main clutch turns. When the T/A clutch is engaged the input shaft and the T/A clutch carrier turns as one and the T/A clutch carrier is splinded to the T/A planet carrier. So instead of the planet gears driving the transmission input shaft like they would if the T/A clutch was disengaged they are just sitting still in the planet carrier as they turn the transmission input shaft. For the tractor to roll in first and turn the T/A clutch plate i'm guessing you shook something loose when rocking the tractor.
Could the tractor have ice in the transmission? Slim outside chance if used often a block ice could freeze away from locking the gears then break loose after starting use.
MikeMo had a strange lockup between the clutch and the t/a. engine would run with clutch pedal down and tractor would roll in gear but choke the engine down when the clutch pedal was let out. Think he found something in the main clutch. But I never understood what.

rhtx55 · Jan 4, 2013

Frozen condesation in the rear end or tranny ???

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

Thanks for the advice. I was only rocking it by hand so I don't think I can have shaken anything very loose. I followed Pete 23s recommendation and pulled the belt pulley and this is what I found. I do not think I have seen gears this chewed up and I am wondering what could have done it. I will look as I tear it down for what the problem could have been. Looks like I will need to do the double split again and also pull the transmission top cover. I replaced the gears in my H a couple of years ago and I think this is largely similar except that the countershaft is hollow, but with the service manual I should be able to figure that out. Looks like I have many happy hours ahead of me in the shop, and there is some warm weather coming up soon that should make it more manageable.
Zach

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

Here are pictures of what I found. Thank you for the advice, that was just what I needed to do.
Zach

D Slater · Jan 4, 2013

If the transmission input shaft is messed up a double split is needed. If not and you can support things a split at the transmission will let you remove both lower and upper transmission shafts. Yes transmission work not much different than a H. PTO parts and the counter shaft is splined with all gears on it single gears is most of the difference. Unlike a H the counter shaft slides out of the gears to remove.

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 4, 2013

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense about how the countershaft works. Looks like the upper constant mesh gear is pretty badly damaged so I will just have to do the double split. Maybe I will get a cherry picker this time, I think it would make the whole thing a lot easier.
Zach

rankrank1 · Jan 4, 2013

And here I was hoping you would get lucky and find something easy, quick, and simple to fix....

Did you keep the h? You could always put her back into service in the interim.

CenTex Farmall · Jan 4, 2013

Mega-bummer!

I"ve seen chipped teeth or pairs of teeth on an input shaft but that one looks chewed all the way around. May have started with a bearing ball between the driven gear and the case. Keep us posted.

Owen Aaland · Jan 5, 2013

Looks like you will be learning all about the TA to repair this problem. The damaged gear is the TA output shaft.

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 5, 2013

The funny part is that I had the TA partly apart in July and learned
about how to put the ramp and rollers back together and such, but I
didn"t tear into the transmission because the gears looked okay
when I peered through the input shaft hole. I guess I should have
done the whole thing then.
Zach

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 5, 2013

I will be at least starting to pull it apart today, I will definitely post pictures of whatever I can find. I sure would hate to put good gears in it and then have it do this again.
Zach

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 5, 2013

I traded the H for a couple of Allis tractors, a C that runs and a B for
parts but the C is not big enough to do what the 300 does. I do
have a Massey 35 that is tired but pretty reliable that I can use for
snow plowing till the 300 is back to working again.
Zach

rankrank1 · Jan 5, 2013

(quoted from post at 12:49:12 01/05/13) I traded the H for a couple of Allis tractors, a C that runs and a B for
parts but the C is not big enough to do what the 300 does.....
Zach

None of my business but hope you got some cash money to boot. Around my parts C or B Allis do not bring squat unless a belly mower is underneath and even then still not much money.

Farmall h's do not sell for much either but they are at least somewhat useful and will easily outsell a C or B Allis (again in my area). Plus your h already had the custom super gears installed that you liked...and you seem to have lots of extra h parts on hand. These factors would have made it a tough decision for me to part with the ole h.

Zachary Hoyt · Jan 5, 2013

I didn't figure I needed two tractors in that size class and the 300
was handier, but now I wonder if I should have kept it. I tried to
sell it for a few months and had zero interest in it so I figured by
trading I could sell parts off the B and keep the C whole and fix it
up a bit. There is a good market for the parts from the little Allis
tractors but WC parts are hard to get rid of, I don't know why.
Zach

Mac Porter · Jan 14, 2013

Got a question guys,I have seals leaking between the TA compartment and the rear differential. Oil migrates from rhe TA and overfills the rear differential.I"m getting ready to split, so I"m wondering what items I should replace while I have it split. Main tractor clutch plate, throw out bearing, TA clutch plate? I"ve also been advised to drop the TA , inspect, clean and repack sun gear needle bearings. Please offer some advice, this is new territory for me and if I could eliminate a future split I would certainly like to do that.

300 TA or clutch problem, I think

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