Farmall 560 Loud Popping Noise

Eric in Seattle · Dec 9, 2012

Hello community...I recently started diving into my new-to-me
1959 Farmall 560. I noticed last time I started it up to take it into
my garage for the winter to work on it, give it a tune up...etc...that
it started popping really loud up towards the front of the tractor
like the engine was popping. Over and over again. And the
hydraulics for the loader and the back scraper blade both lost a
ton of power...and then all of a sudden would get it back. So I got
the loader and the blade up enough long enough to get it inside.
So...totally a new tractor owner and non-engine guy here
talking...anyone have any ideas what I need to do? Why would it
suddenly start doing this? It also died on a me a few times during
the process as well.

I am also looking for a great instructional
guide/video/internet/printed guide that would be good for a
tuneup to be done? I would like to do an oil change, hydraulic
fluid change, and tune up. But am not sure where to start and
have never done it before.

I have only owned the tractor for a few months. it's my first one
for my first acreage/land purchase of my life. So I love the old
beast...I just need to learn how to use it and fix it.

steve alderman · Dec 9, 2012

check your plug wires make sure they are all on good and you might have a valve hanging up

Eric in Seattle · Dec 9, 2012

Thanks for the reply Steve. Would you walk me briefly through how to free up a valve? And would I know which one? Thanks. Brand new mechanic here!! Lol!!!

rustred · Dec 9, 2012

and how will i know which one?... compression check. thats the first thing on the list when you suspect engine problem or doing a tune up.

Janicholson · Dec 9, 2012

A compression check is done with a screw in compression gauge. If you don't have mechanics tools, you will. A good compression tester from a real tool company will be in the area of 35$ to 100+ bucks, Craftsman for 58 is pretty good.
The engine has all plugs removed.
The coil is disconnected (the distributor side of the coil is a good place to disconnect)
The Throttle is open wide
Fuel shut off is off
Fully charges good battery to spin it fast.
Put the tester in #1 cylinder (front)
Crank the engine for 5 compression strokes (you can hear it easily)
Look at the gauge and record the data on a tablet.
Do the same for each cylinder.
Use a squirt oil can and put three squirts of engine oil in each spark plug hole, spin the engine with the starter to spread the oil
Repeat the test now.
Report back to us for diagnosis.
Generally the compression should be (IIRC) 140 to 160 PSI
If uniform, (within 10 % of each other) that is also good.
Jim

Janicholson · Dec 9, 2012

A compression check is done with a screw in compression gauge. If you don't have mechanics tools, you will. A good compression tester from a real tool company will be in the area of 35$ to 100+ bucks, Craftsman for 58 is pretty good.
The engine has all plugs removed.
The coil is disconnected (the distributor side of the coil is a good place to disconnect)
The Throttle is open wide
Fuel shut off is off
Fully charges good battery to spin it fast.
Put the tester in #1 cylinder (front)
Crank the engine for 5 compression strokes (you can hear it easily)
Look at the gauge and record the data on a tablet.
Do the same for each cylinder.
Use a squirt oil can and put three squirts of engine oil in each spark plug hole, spin the engine with the starter to spread the oil
Repeat the test now.
Report back to us for diagnosis.
Generally the compression should be (IIRC) 140 to 160 PSI
If uniform, (within 10 % of each other) that is also good.
Jim

steve alderman · Dec 9, 2012

they way I always checked valves to make sure they are not suck now it not the correct way but take a deep socket thats a little smaller than then the valve spring give it a tap with a hammer if the spring moves your valve is free if it doesnt it stuck to unstick it just remove make sure its not bent then clean an oil it till it moves smooth

Janicholson · Dec 9, 2012

With a tapered keeper on the stem, the hammer and socket will take out keepers faster than a valve spring compressor. Use a 90 degree old fashioned monkey wrench on the rocker to depress the valve. Be sure to hold onto the pushrod, as it will be loose. Jim

ejr-IA. · Dec 9, 2012

Water in the gas and how cold is it where you live ?Your hydraulic oil may have moisture in it causeing to freeze up and cause the hydraulics to act the way you said.

ejr-IA. · Dec 9, 2012

Water in the gas and how cold is it where you live ?Your hydraulic oil may have moisture in it causeing to freeze up and cause the hydraulics to act the way you said.

Eric in Seattle · Dec 10, 2012

Hi Jim. Well I just completed the first compression test of my life. Word to the wise: don't get the "free compression loaner" from O'Reilly's. I got two of them from two different stores and both were broke. So I bought a middle of the road one and I got the results as follows:
(In order 1-6)

DRY: 130, 110, 125, 120, 130, 120

WET: 150, 125, 150, 135, 150, 140.

I also noticed that there is a hole in the side of my exhaust manifold on the the driver side right (opposite the engine of the plugs where I did the test).

So, all that said...I actually am enjoying this process and hope to keep learning more. So now what? Analysis from you?

Thanks Jim. I will wait anxiously for your reply.

(quoted from post at 23:55:54 12/09/12) A compression check is done with a screw in compression gauge. If you don't have mechanics tools, you will. A good compression tester from a real tool company will be in the area of 35$ to 100+ bucks, Craftsman for 58 is pretty good.
The engine has all plugs removed.
The coil is disconnected (the distributor side of the coil is a good place to disconnect)
The Throttle is open wide
Fuel shut off is off
Fully charges good battery to spin it fast.
Put the tester in #1 cylinder (front)
Crank the engine for 5 compression strokes (you can hear it easily)
Look at the gauge and record the data on a tablet.
Do the same for each cylinder.
Use a squirt oil can and put three squirts of engine oil in each spark plug hole, spin the engine with the starter to spread the oil
Repeat the test now.
Report back to us for diagnosis.
Generally the compression should be (IIRC) 140 to 160 PSI
If uniform, (within 10 % of each other) that is also good.
Jim

Janicholson · Dec 10, 2012

#2 compression reading is a possible leaky valve. I would recommend a valve adjustment.

This will do it. It is simple and fool proof. The process works for all 4 stroke engines with adjustable valves and any number of cylinders. Identifying the valve order is all that is necesary (given in this process for the 560).
I do it this way others do a different system. It must be set cold first, so setting it twice (or once) is normal
Set the intake valve on cylinder #1 (Front) when its exhaust valve just starts to open.
Set the exhaust when the intake just closes.
These are the two positions that can be seen on each cylinder, by looking at the valve springs and retainer, to be as far away from a lobe on the cam as possible while still knowing where it is.
The order is (front to back EI-IE-EI-IE-EI-IE)
Look at #1 valves, Turn the engine till the Exhaust just starts to begin opening (moves) then adjust the Intake valve. Rotate more until the intake just stops moving after having been open) and adjust the exhaust. Treat every cylinder (pair of valves shown above the same way, remembering they switch places between cylinders) I put a rag over the ones I have done to keep track of progress, and avoid mixing what I am looking at. Jim

Eric in Seattle · Dec 10, 2012

So Jim, in your opinion is my compression too low overall? I thought had mentioned 150-160 is good. I was hoping it wasnt something bigger like a head gasket or something. Again, I'm no mechanic. But just confirming your thoughts. Anything for me to worry about?

(quoted from post at 05:07:58 12/11/12) #2 compression reading is a possible leaky valve. I would recommend a valve adjustment.

This will do it. It is simple and fool proof. The process works for all 4 stroke engines with adjustable valves and any number of cylinders. Identifying the valve order is all that is necesary (given in this process for the 560).
I do it this way others do a different system. It must be set cold first, so setting it twice (or once) is normal
Set the intake valve on cylinder #1 (Front) when its exhaust valve just starts to open.
Set the exhaust when the intake just closes.
These are the two positions that can be seen on each cylinder, by looking at the valve springs and retainer, to be as far away from a lobe on the cam as possible while still knowing where it is.
The order is (front to back EI-IE-EI-IE-EI-IE)
Look at #1 valves, Turn the engine till the Exhaust just starts to begin opening (moves) then adjust the Intake valve. Rotate more until the intake just stops moving after having been open) and adjust the exhaust. Treat every cylinder (pair of valves shown above the same way, remembering they switch places between cylinders) I put a rag over the ones I have done to keep track of progress, and avoid mixing what I am looking at. Jim

mkirsch · Dec 11, 2012

You're compression test is FINE. Plenty of compression, and a long way from needing an overhaul. Adjusting the valves probably won't hurt, and even just using the tractor may cause the compression to even out.

The "popping" noise and power loss is probably just the cold engine SPUTTERING. These 6-cylinder engines are a bit cold blooded and will sputter some until they're warmed up, especially in cold weather. Judicious application of the choke when the engine starts to sputter will clear it up. Just give it a little blip of choke when it starts to sputter. You may have to give it a little choke every time you let the clutch out for the first few minutes after startup.

It may need carburetor work, but just give the choke idea try and see if it helps.

Eric in Seattle · Dec 12, 2012

Hi Jim. Thanks for the reply. I hate to say this and sound like a dork, but I'm totally confused since I've never done this before. Once I learn it, I won't need to be told twice, but this first time is intense. What do you mean by "must be set cold first, so setting it twice is normal"?

And when you say "set the intake valve", how do I do this? I've never done this before.

And how do I look at the valve springs and retainer, and what the lobe?

Okay...all that said, I REALLY APPRECIATE your time. I'm a quick learner...so throw it at me and I'll rock this out.

Thanks again...

Eric in Seattle · Dec 12, 2012

Thanks Jim for the thoughts and advice. I will definitely try the choke idea and see if that helps. I'll keep you posted.

(quoted from post at 14:24:01 12/11/12) You're compression test is FINE. Plenty of compression, and a long way from needing an overhaul. Adjusting the valves probably won't hurt, and even just using the tractor may cause the compression to even out.

The "popping" noise and power loss is probably just the cold engine SPUTTERING. These 6-cylinder engines are a bit cold blooded and will sputter some until they're warmed up, especially in cold weather. Judicious application of the choke when the engine starts to sputter will clear it up. Just give it a little blip of choke when it starts to sputter. You may have to give it a little choke every time you let the clutch out for the first few minutes after startup.

It may need carburetor work, but just give the choke idea try and see if it helps.

Janicholson · Dec 12, 2012

All valve systems change dimensions as the temperature of the engine goes from ambient, to full running temp. As this happens, the metal of the engine changes size with temp. (hot bigger, cold smaller) Not all metal changes at the same rate in inches per inch per degree. The valve is made from very different metal than the head. The pushrod and valve rocker are also different. The result is that the valve train expands with heat farther than the head and block. This engine has mechanical valve mechanism that is different than those found in new cars in that those have automatic adjusters which keep the clearance correct.
Your tractor has "looseness" that is designed into the system to allow correct operation. This looseness is the clearance. The clearance is more when the valves and engine are cold. The Two ways of setting the valves are when it is cold, and when it is well warmed up. To get it warmed up, and then remove the valve cover and adjust them (while toasting your fingers/hands/and tools) is more difficult, and is usually not done except at repairs that also require the removal of the head.
Adjusting cold is a bit less accurate, but no real problem.
Setting clearance cold is done as follows:
A feeler gauge (a multi-blade tool with 2.5 inch long "feelers" that are in different thicknesses, measured in thousandths of an inch (or mm if Metric) There will be 15 to 25 blades in the tool.
The measurement is between the rocker arm and the butt end of the valve. (Adj. Gap in illustration).
This gap can have wear between the tip of the valve, and the rocker arm tip. this wear can interfere with correct reading of the clearance if the rocker is cup shaped. Look carefully at a rocker tip to assure it is not grooved. If grooved, it will be necessary to have the tips reground at an auto machine shop.
The positioning of the valves is as described in the post.
The feel on the feeler gauge is judged good when the gauge has a slight resistance to removal, but is easily inserted. Be careful to keep the feeler flat on the valve butt.
The lobe of the cam in the illustration is pointing away from the lifter. This is the position ov adjustment. You cannot see the cam at all, so looking at the opposite valve as directed in the former post is the idea. A valve is open when the lobe pushes all parts and compresses the spring. When it is closed, it is up, and the pushrod is looseish. If this is insufficient instruction, you will need to feed a mechanic about 1/2 pound of steak, and a bottle of 25 dollar Scotch. Jim

Eric in Seattle · Dec 12, 2012

Jim you are the freaking man!!! I actually get it. Thanks SO MUCH for the amazing explanation and thoroughness. One quick question:

How do I get to the valves/rocker/assembly to use my new feeler gauge?

Again, total newbie here. Do I have to take off some pieces of the engine head?

Thanks again. Your time and advice are not wasted!!

E.

(quoted from post at 02:10:47 12/13/12) All valve systems change dimensions as the temperature of the engine goes from ambient, to full running temp. As this happens, the metal of the engine changes size with temp. (hot bigger, cold smaller) Not all metal changes at the same rate in inches per inch per degree. The valve is made from very different metal than the head. The pushrod and valve rocker are also different. The result is that the valve train expands with heat farther than the head and block. This engine has mechanical valve mechanism that is different than those found in new cars in that those have automatic adjusters which keep the clearance correct.
Your tractor has "looseness" that is designed into the system to allow correct operation. This looseness is the clearance. The clearance is more when the valves and engine are cold. The Two ways of setting the valves are when it is cold, and when it is well warmed up. To get it warmed up, and then remove the valve cover and adjust them (while toasting your fingers/hands/and tools) is more difficult, and is usually not done except at repairs that also require the removal of the head.
Adjusting cold is a bit less accurate, but no real problem.
Setting clearance cold is done as follows:
A feeler gauge (a multi-blade tool with 2.5 inch long "feelers" that are in different thicknesses, measured in thousandths of an inch (or mm if Metric) There will be 15 to 25 blades in the tool.
The measurement is between the rocker arm and the butt end of the valve. (Adj. Gap in illustration).
This gap can have wear between the tip of the valve, and the rocker arm tip. this wear can interfere with correct reading of the clearance if the rocker is cup shaped. Look carefully at a rocker tip to assure it is not grooved. If grooved, it will be necessary to have the tips reground at an auto machine shop.
The positioning of the valves is as described in the post.
The feel on the feeler gauge is judged good when the gauge has a slight resistance to removal, but is easily inserted. Be careful to keep the feeler flat on the valve butt.
The lobe of the cam in the illustration is pointing away from the lifter. This is the position ov adjustment. You cannot see the cam at all, so looking at the opposite valve as directed in the former post is the idea. A valve is open when the lobe pushes all parts and compresses the spring. When it is closed, it is up, and the pushrod is looseish. If this is insufficient instruction, you will need to feed a mechanic about 1/2 pound of steak, and a bottle of 25 dollar Scotch. Jim

Janicholson · Dec 16, 2012

Sorry, if I am Late, Assume you are there already. The valve cover is removed to get at the valve adjustment. Remove the hood and have at it. Jim

Farmall 560 Loud Popping Noise

Eric in Seattle

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