Scrap thieves and sheriff deputy long rant

I have 14 acres with about 1700' of creek frontage that's been used as a dumping ground for 100+ years. It's has a black top through it with a bridge over the creek. I've been slowly cleaning it out and doing some dirt work so I can get a tractor down in their to access it. I have about 700' left to do. I noticed some cars on the shoulder so went down to see what was up. 5 non english speaking hispanics down in the bottom picking up scrap steel. Some that I'd already stacked and some not. I asked them to leave and got a no habla for my efforts.

My home, out buildings,Farmall spare parts tractors are readily accessible from the creek when it is dry. More so now that that section is cleaned out.

SOO I call the Sheriff dept. Deputy shows up 45 minutes later and wonders why I want them out as they are cleaning up the place. Dumbstruck it took me a minute to comprehend what he said.

I explained to him that it's my land, that all he needs to know and are you going to run them off or do you want me to call someone else? I also asked him if he was going to call INS and got a "not my job man" reply.
I really got po'ed and said next time I won't call him and just handle it myself.

He explained that these illegals know our system better than we do and if they file a complaint against me he will have to arrest me. I'll basically get sued for infringing on their rights. He also said that LAST thing you ever do is point a gun at them as they know that is assault with a deadly weapon and I would go to jail before they would.

Now I really can't believe I'm taking a scolding for not wanting strangers roaming my property.

By this time they are cursing me/us in spanish and pizzed about having to unload my scrap. Between them and me he had called for backup and 2 more deputies showed up. Thieves left with no arrests or tickets. deputies never even checked for id's.

He did ask for my id and ran it.

After I calmed down. I asked him if he was aware of the recent break ins, burglaries and mysterious disappearances of anything loose? Now he was dumbstruck for a minute. Our county has a 4% success rate for solving burglaries, or should I say 96% failure rate. I got another "not my job man". Seems his job is to write up the report and then he's done with it.

He did agree to patrol my area a little more often.

This was a real wake up call for me as our cops seem to be scared of them and they dang sure had no fear of them or me.

What the heck am I going to do?

Run for Sheriff. campaign platform "I'll arrest thieves and trespassers" the incumbent might actually get off his half moons if he has a chance of loosing his job. Also file a complaint with your local DA he to is an elected official. Have you got a lawyer friend? You could run for Sheriff they for DA on a law and order ticket. On a less drastic measure write complaints to the Sheriff, your county supervisor and the county supervisor that heads up your law enforcement committee. Run for County Supervisor, most sheriff's I dealt with have concern for county board members 'cause they need the votes to get people and equipment so they make nice with them. Show up a meetings and use the public comment to express you concerns for your property and personal safety. File a tax appeal on the grounds of diminished value do to theft of commercial and personnel property, file a claim with your insurance company if anything was taken, some insurance companies will put pressure on the law enforcement community to do their job. Research and file a complaint with state level law enforcement about your sheriff's lack of action, again they often put pressure on the local guy. There is usually a state level division that investigates malfeasance of elected officials. Post the land no trespassing in English and Spanish. Here's they way it works, it's a PITA for them to arrest anyone especially if the "no habla englease" you need to convince them and the elected officials dealing with you will be a bigger PITA. If nothing else call you state and complain about the trespassers planting Mary-Jane on your place they have to respond to that. There are other more covert action you can take but it's not wise to discuss such things in the open, but if something were to happen to their truck, say it caught fire and they were illegally trespassing the vehicle owner can be sued and they usually get real scarce when process is in the air.

it is so sad. the judges and the president refuse to enforce the law of the land. here, in tennessee, drunks are let go with a slap on the hand until one of them kills someone while driving.
i vote against anyone running for re-election, unless i really know them and what they are doing.

Actually you could probably beat a child to death and spend less time in jail than if you get caught DUI.

not here. dui will get off until they are arrested 4 r 5 times, or kill someone.

shoot first ask questions second you live in texas

Last time I had a problem with scrap thieves, I got the Satae Police involved. Been prety goiet around here lately.

I understand it's frustrating, but you'd be screaming bloody murder if the Sheriff's department was wasting $1000's of taxpayer dollars chasing down thieves that stole $10's worth of someone else's scrap metal.

It'd be great if the concept of right and wrong was the driving force behind law enforcement, and we could throw unlimited resources at catching and punishing every "bad guy" who breaks ANY law...

Or, would it? It might come around and bite you in the butt someday. When you want that officer to look the other way when he nailed you for going 56 in a 55 zone, for example? You did break the law, after all...

Get a couple of big dogs and don't feed them too much. They'll work on commission.

Having just cleaned 8-10,000 pounds of old shingles plus several hundred pounds of broken glass, tons of scrap metal including an old Buick, dozens of bags of clothing and odd articles, and hundreds of cinder blocks from a 70' erosion ditch in the center of our farm and getting little more than an injured shoulder and a lost summer for my trouble I have to say that, if I were you, me thinks I would have just sat in my truck and let those fool Mex have at it. Might have offered them a nice bonus if they hauled off everything and not just the steel!

Cops and trespass are a problem here too, though. Just had a neighbor stomp down my new wire fence behind his house so his kids could continue to play on the farm...then promptly moved out and sold the house. Four calls to get a cop out to look at it only to be told that he would do nothing without a witness. Since I expected nothing better, I was not disappointed.

Here in Colorado, they have '0' tolerance.if the officer even smells alcohol on your breath,you get arrested and loose your liscence for a year.Then you must attend alcohol classes.Three times and you're a habitual offender(doesnt matter if it's been 40 years since the 1st two).

guess tenn. needs to model after colorado. law is tough enough here, but, judges and D A does not enforce. it

thanks

(quoted from post at 22:42:58 11/27/12)What the heck am I going to do?

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Sucks law enforcement won't do their job. And you bet the law will do it's 'job', when you do it yourself. I would say an American Bull dog or similar and a pistol side holstered may help discourage future trespass.

Yep now days it seems the cops work for the crooks not the law abiding people so that is why you get that type of thing. Sad but the whole system is broken from the bottom all the way up to the top

Dave H (MI) The rest of the story is this is the 3rd incident. 1st time they didn't get caught, 2nd they apologized and left. 3rd time they got beligerent and wouldn't leave. Previously I lost a hog trap. It was a rusty old looking piece of junk. I'm sure they mistook it for scrap. It was not, it worked great. It will be expensive to replace.

I have a whole network of local LEGAL folks that I PAY to help me clean this all up and I GIVE those folks the scrap. I don't have to worry about them on my place and nothing ever disappears after they've been around.

Next door single mom has been broke into 3 x's in the last year, the last time she was home and ran them off with a gun.

The thing that threw me with all of this is that I felt like I ended up being the bad guy. After all they are just picking up junk. It is helping me. That's a heck of a way to make a living I'll bet they couln't pull $50 worth of scrap out of there in a days time and there was 5 of them. I can appreciate that.

BUT

Any one that is willing to come into this country ILEGALLY wouldn't have any qualms comeing on to my property, or yours, and helping themselves to anything they want. After all they are just picking up your junk.

mkirsch, The problem is that attitude is the norm. The do bads know that no punishment is coming. It encourages them and they just get more blatant about it.

As little as I break the law I'm not worried about a 56 ticket in a 55. That's nothing new. I got a ticket in AR for 68 in a 65. I was in my TX semi coming down the hill with the cruise on. Mid afternoon with no traffic. NO excuses,I was speeding.

Just another example of it's about the revenue and not safety.

Then you will need liability insurance too.

It may be junk but it's *YOUR* junk and you needed to make that clear to the officer. It's your junk and you'll clean it up in your own time.

"Officer, this is my private property. These individuals are trespassing and removing my personal items from my property without my permission." Calmly, and repeated as many times as it takes to drive the message home.

While I don't believe in wasting taxpayer money prosecuting truly petty theft like this, the officer was still obligated to compel them to put the stuff back and vacate the premises.

Can you call the state police instead of the local sheriff? Around where I grew up you called the state police if you wanted help.

(quoted from post at 21:31:25 11/28/12) It may be junk but it's *YOUR* junk and you needed to make that clear to the officer. It's your junk and you'll clean it up in your own time.

"Officer, this is my private property. These individuals are trespassing and removing my personal items from my property without my permission." Calmly, and repeated as many times as it takes to drive the message home.

While I don't believe in wasting taxpayer money prosecuting truly petty theft like this, the officer was still obligated to compel them to put the stuff back and vacate the premises.

Can you call the state police instead of the local sheriff? Around where I grew up you called the state police if you wanted help.

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You have to be careful who's toes you step on. The deed may so you own the land, but when it comes down to it, the county has the last word. Does Property Tax ring a bell? You tick off the right individual that has power in the county, they'll make you clean it up or they'll clean it up and send you a nice little bill. Bottom line is if you don't want trouble keep you mouth shut. It seems like anymore that County, State Officials can be corrupt.

Don't blame the cop all the time. There are lots of good ones out there. If it was a great job everybody would do it so be glad some do. After a while law enforcement people get tired of beating their head against the wall when they arrest somebody and they get released with little or no punishment. The real problem is the legal system. Attorneys are the biggest problem this country faces. Thats just my opinion.

Bruce

(quoted from post at 15:33:20 11/28/12)

(quoted from post at 21:31:25 11/28/12) It may be junk but it's *YOUR* junk and you needed to make that clear to the officer. It's your junk and you'll clean it up in your own time.

"Officer, this is my private property. These individuals are trespassing and removing my personal items from my property without my permission." Calmly, and repeated as many times as it takes to drive the message home.

While I don't believe in wasting taxpayer money prosecuting truly petty theft like this, the officer was still obligated to compel them to put the stuff back and vacate the premises.

Can you call the state police instead of the local sheriff? Around where I grew up you called the state police if you wanted help.

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You have to be careful who's toes you step on. The deed may so you own the land, but when it comes down to it, the county has the last word. Does Property Tax ring a bell? You tick off the right individual that has power in the county, they'll make you clean it up or they'll clean it up and send you a nice little bill. Bottom line is if you don't want trouble keep you mouth shut. It seems like anymore that County, State Officials can be corrupt.

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That is the kind of attitude that has gotten us to this point. People who are unwilling to stand up for themselves. You make someone mad and they unjustly raise your property taxes you can appeal that decision. that appeal will expose that and the person who was responsible can be subject to criminal charges.

Rick

W.Brehm,
That's a whole other thread there. Your exactly right.

I had the county engineers, corp of engineers, flood control, and surveyors,
out before I ever started cleaning up. I had to get "permission" to clean up my
own land.

I pulled a "dirt permit" so I could fill the ravines above the flood, Got
permission and pulled a "developmental permit" to move dirt around in the
flood and fill lower end of the ravines. This is AFTER I cleaned them out.
They wouldn't let me just cover the crap up.

The very 1st day here comes the Sheriff Deputy. Environmental control
officer. Seems some one called in saying I was dumping. That went very well
as it was plain I was cleaning up.

About 6 months later I started having dirt hauled. No charge as they were
doing road work. I committed to 100 loads. About 60 loads into it here
comes the County Flood guy and shut us down. Mind you I had my ducks in a
row. Surveyors report, flood line marked, permits etc. It took about a week
for him to figure out he had screwed up and apologized. Mean time the other
40 loads I wanted went somewhere else. I had to pay my dozer guy his full
fee as it wasn't his problem we got shut down.

Texas definitely works under the good ol boy system and that's perfect if your
one of the good ol boys. I always have been till lately. It seems we are
growing so fast with too many new young faces who don't know anyone or
anything.

If you go the INS route, call your cong rep. that should get some action! might need two calls tho!
depending on where you live, as near a USBP or DHS , ICE office. I spent(wasted?) 28 years doing that job and your type of call I relished, as no one else would respond. Sorry friend!!
dg

(quoted from post at 15:33:20 11/28/12) You have to be careful who's toes you step on. The deed may so you own the land, but when it comes down to it, the county has the last word. Does Property Tax ring a bell? You tick off the right individual that has power in the county, they'll make you clean it up or they'll clean it up and send you a nice little bill. Bottom line is if you don't want trouble keep you mouth shut. It seems like anymore that County, State Officials can be corrupt.

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If the deputy thinks his toes are being stepped on with my approach, then there is a *REAL* corruption and abuse of power problem in that area. That Buford T. Justice wannabe needs to go down.

You don't get in the officer's face. You don't raise your voice. You don't use angry tones. State it calmly, coolly and collectedly. Might not hurt to have a video camera running the entire time too.

It's pretty much universal that the county has to issue you a citation and give you an amount of time to deal with any code violations. 30 days is what I hear most often. No matter how corrupt, they HAVE to give you that before they send in the county crew and bill you.

I take from another poster you live in Texas. Ironic this was in my email today.

THE OFFICIAL TEXAS SHERIFF EXAM: A YOUNG TEXAN GREW UP WANTING TO BE A LAWMAN. HE GREW UP BIG, 6\' 2", STRONG AS A LONGHORN AND FAST AS MUSTANG. HE COULD SHOOT A BOTTLE CAP TOSSED IN THE AIR AT 40 PACES. WHEN HE FINALLY CAME OF AGE, HE APPLIED TO WHERE HE HAD ONLY dreamed of working: the West Texas Sheriff's Department. After a series of tests and interviews, the Chief Deputy finally CALLED HIM INTO HIS OFFICE FOR THE YOUNG MAN\'S LAST INTERVIEW. THE CHIEF DEPUTY SAID, "YOU\'RE A BIG STRONG KID AND YOU CAN REALLY SHOOT. SO FAR YOUR QUALIFICATIONS ALL LOOK GOOD, BUT WE HAVE, WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL, AN "ATTITUDE SUITABILITY TEST", THAT YOU MUST TAKE BEFORE YOU CAN BE ACCEPTED. WE JUST DON\'T LET ANYONE CARRY OUR BADGE, SON." THEN, SLIDING A SERVICE PISTOL AND A BOX OF AMMO ACROSS THE DESK, THE CHIEF SAID, "TAKE THIS PISTOL AND GO OUT AND SHOOT: SIX ILLEGAL ALIENS, SIX LAWYERS, SIX METH DEALERS, SIX nnalert EXTREMISTS, SIX nnalert, AND A RABBIT." "WHY THE RABBIT?" QUERIED THE APPLICANT. "YOU PASS," SAID THE CHIEF DEPUTY."WHEN CAN YOU START?"

Over 30 years ago, I recall Paul Harvey stating: "...the government has to do something soon about illegals entering this country, before it becomes politically unpalatable to do so." Well, it has and they and sad to say - many of us, don't want to deal with the issue now...just look at the spineless politicians. It sucks when you are right but, nowadays, in the wrong.

I would say you are about ready for a very good lawyer.
I can't beleive you were in the wrong here.
I would say this "Sheriff" realizes that the offense is merely a class C misdemeanor, and probably not worth his precious time to fill out the arrest reports, BUT he could have handled the conversation with a bit more consideration of your rights as a landowner, and outright tact.
Imigration might be the best one to call next time.

I can not express here my shared desperation for your situation, especially here in this state. I have an aqaintance who retired from The Rangers here near Garland, his explanation was :
FIRST you need a Sheriff with a bit better education of Texas law.
2. Illegals are Illegal, they have no rights by Texas law.
3. Once they obtain citizenship, it is still breaking the law to tresspass, scrap or no scrap.
4. Get a real lawyer & go from there.

You can whine about the law all you want and it will get you nothing. You can complain about illegals and nothing will happen. You can speak your peace right here and albeit it might make you feel better it will do nothing. So, patrol your property often and carry a 12ga. loaded with rock salt. If anybody confronts you explain that you are hunting rabbits but don't really want to hurt those poor little things.

(quoted from post at 15:03:19 12/01/12) You can whine about the law all you want and it will get you nothing. You can complain about illegals and nothing will happen. You can speak your peace right here and albeit it might make you feel better it will do nothing. So, patrol your property often and carry a 12ga. loaded with rock salt. If anybody confronts you explain that you are hunting rabbits but don't really want to hurt those poor little things.

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If he listens to you he'll definately be charge with sometihing. It doesn't matter if you post No Tresspassing signs or have a 24 hour guard watching the premises. If someone tresspasse on your land and gets hurt your liable, it doesn't matter. Check you State Laws on Tresspassers, but here in Iowa the land owner is held liable.