McCormick 10-20 (pics) Almost done - lubrication question

We dropped in the motor yesterday and set all of the other parts. Today we fought a few water leaks, fuel leaks and of course our oil pan leaked a bit. Tomorrow we should have a different oil pan that we left at the motor builder. He also has the piece that goes from the mag to the motor so we can try and fire it up.

What is the best oil to fill with? I"ve seen 15w-40 in many other posts. How many quarts?

What about transmission oil? Is 80-90 gear oil ok? How many quarts?

I"ll need to get some new fuel lines made but I put in some rubber ones so that we can hopefully test fire the motor with the motor builder tomorrow. He is going to drive 2 hours 1 way to give us a hand with the starting. Cross your fingers.

I have attached a before / after photo.
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Howdy Dave; it looks GREAT!

7 quarts of crankcase oil, if my books are right (I figured 2 gallons in the noggin, so I'll take it at 7qt). Options are pretty open on oils; 15-40 should be fine. I would stay away from the synthetics until you can work it a little and seat the rings, but that could be too much stock in "old mechanics tales" on my part.

6 gallons of transmission oil according to the book; I'd say again you have a good plan with the 80-90.

Curious myself regarding other opinions on either, but sounds like you have it!
 
(reply to post at 19:09:49 03/12/09)

BTW, you beat me too it! :oops: I thought I'd be posting a 22-36 video a month ago, but always found myself waiting on one more part, or other projects taking priority etc. It's getting close though! Of course, even at that, yours is already painted so looks much nicer.
 
Thanks for the info. I have a couple of books but couldn't seem to find exactly how much to use.

It will be an amazing day if we get it running. Motor should be great but I'm not sure I'm man enough to turn it over!
 
The book called for 140 wt gear oil and It is out there, but may be hard to find. it will boil down to having oil jobbers makeing some calls but you will find it. Keep filling through plug at top in front and it will fill all the "tubs inside and it makes its way to the back. When it runs out the back it is full. I used 30wt motor oil in mine and it ran just fine even starting it by hand crank in cold weather. I buy 2 gallon jugs and open the lower valve and the top one on the pan. When it comes out the lower one shut it off and you will know it is getting close to filling up. When it comes out the top valve it is good. Sure does look good! I remember when you posted that you found it!
 
I stumbled around for 8 months trying to get local guys to do the motor. I should have just loaded it up and gone to Iowa (Alderson's). Our third motor man is in OK. He seems quite good at the old motors but we will see after the test fire.

Followup question: I think I am going to give up on the stock exhaust manifolds or at least put them on the shelf for a while. They are completely shattered. I have the gas exhaust manifolds that many of the old 10-20s seem to have on them. Can I get the part that goes from the manifold down through the hole in the side curtains? The other tractor that we are about to start on had the exhaust go through the firewall but I the hood and side curtains off my donor tractor has the hole in the side curtain so I really want to have exhaust made that accomidates.
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man dose your 10-20 looke good i am doing one to mine is a 1924 10-20 my engine is stuck but i allmost have it loosend up where did you find the side panels i have found all of the parts but no side panels do you know if you can get new fenders hope mine will look as good as yours thanks
 
We had a 1926 10-20 bought before I was born. I wasn't very old when I could crank it and start it. It started very easily. Here's a 1927 10-20
owned by a WW2 vet who's in his 80's and told me his dad bought it new in 1927. He lives in Iowa and rents out his farm land. Hal
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This tractor had the hood and side curtains on it and I bought a 3rd donor tractor that had a good hood and side curtains and a loose motor. I have seen one reproduction hood but no side curtains.
 
Dan - sorry, I didn't finish. These are new fenders from Fordson House. Very nice for $600. I bought a new set for each tractor. I do have a set of 'pretty' good fenders that would be an ok starting point if you didn't want new fenders.
 
The dash outlet 10-20 from this website is just like what was on one of the tractors. It had been a homemade modification.

I am going to try and avoid the through the dash and try and make the turn down and out the side curtain from this manifold.

would this piece work? Early Muffler Outlet
Code: R1020-E

I have the exhaust elbow and would need the piece that turns from the manifold and attaches to the exhaust elbow.

the Fordson House sells the dash outlet, the early muffler and the exhaust elbow. From what I saw on my tractors was that one had a original exhaust manifold and exhaust. The early muffler outlet looks like it could make the tight 90 degree turn I need and twist to allow me to bolt the exhaust elbow in place. Is this wishful thinking?
 
(quoted from post at 09:45:14 03/13/09) talked with fordson, it won't work. We are starting to do custom fabrication on it.

The parts you listed from Fordson House are, I believe, made by Rosewood Machine (the link I pasted earlier should take you to pictures of the parts, and I think they have contact info somewhere on that sight). I've never talked with them, but it may be worth inquiring. I don't have a 10-20 parts book, so your quesses are better than mine what manifolds were appropriate over which years.

Also, I'd have no idea what quantities it takes to pique their interest, but seeing they have a WK-40 manifold, I'd bet they'd have some interest in making combination manifolds for the 10-20. If so, fewer tractors, but probably as much interest in the 22-36 (1929+ 15-30) combination manifold, which seems to be a bit hard to find.
 
As far as I know, the "gas manifold" that comes through the hood was never an original option. I would bet that it is the same manifold that you could buy for an F-30. I have several old catalogs from aftermarket suppliers, and some of them offered the "gas manifold." This means that the manifold is "cold," in other words, it doesn't do much heating of the intake manifold, as the kerosene-distillate manifolds did. Some of the IH tractors that were originally made for kerosene-distillate had a baffle that could be moved with a lever, to supply heat for kerosene, or remove most of it for using gasoline. I don't believe such a baffle was part of the 10-20 manifold, but I can't prove it. Perhaps somebody who deals with these a lot can tell us. I used several K-D tractors on gasoline, and they all had the baffle in "cold" position. I don't know if there would be a real advantage to buying a cold manifold, IF the cold/hot position is available on an original manifold. If you are not going to be doing any hard work, it really shouldn't matter. You can burn gas with no hassles. My guess is that you would not get full power from gasoline when using a "hot" manifold, just because it causes too much vaporization of the gas.
I grew up on a couple of 10-20s, a '26 and a '29. It's been almost 60 years since I've fired one of 'em up, but I can remember them as if I had just stepped off their platforms. The '29 was my grandfather's, inherited by my father. It had the exhaust going through a very small muffler, then exiting THROUGH the firewall. This is a dangerous position IF any gasoline is spilled out of the tank with the motor running. I guess because it was a pain to crank a tractor all the time, lots of people left them running while filling up. I saw a horrible accident when a teenager was standing on the platform, holding the hose. Without thinking, he pulled it out while the pump was working. The gas that went down the side immediately lit up like a torch, shooting flames up from the tank filler opening. In his surprise, the boy spilled gas on himself, and HE caught fire. He died a few days later from having burns all over his body. BE CAREFUL WITH THESE OLD BIRDS! The same goes for cranking. Check that the impulse is down, if it's manual, or listen for the "clink-clink" sound you hear when an automatic impulse is dropping into the notch. In theory, you don't have to retard the spark if the impulse is engaged, but I always did "just in case." The engine will start just fine, and you lessen the risk of a kickback. Some people crank by spinning the engine. This is NOT necessary if the impulse coupling is working--the hot spark comes from spinning the magneto after the impulse releases. A lot of old-timers had their arms broken by a kickback (my father included). With a 10-20, you have over 70 cubic inches per cylinder, which put another way is saying that one cylinder puts out the kick of an entire 1100 cc. engine.
Back to more pleasant topics: I know that there were other versions of manifolds, and that many of them came out AHEAD of the firewall. It seems to me, too, that there were versions with TWO exhaust pipes. Again, I'm talking from memory and can't verify all this.
I wrassled our steel-wheeled 10-20 around for at least 10 years, until my father replaced it with an H. He let the 10-20 rust away. At the time, I wasn't interested, and now I just wish I had taken it. He would have given it to me, I am sure. It ran like a top when he parked it, and would have been just fine with a paint job and maybe some minor tinkering. My memories are of a hard-steering brute that shook your bones when you were on hard soil (a graveled yard or a road, for example--second gear throttled back was about all you could take, and that standing up). It had enormous amounts of torque, because of that huge engine and 5" stroke. It pulled two 14s through anything, but only in second gear. Steel wheels waste a LOT of power, so none of the steel-wheeled tractors I ever used (10-20, F-12, Oliver HP R-C) would pull much of a load in high gear. Rubber tires changed all that. Never got to drive a 10-20 on rubber, so don't know if it would have pulled the two plows in third gear. I would guess not (plow draft rises rapidly with increasing speed), but I do think that, on rubber, it would have pulled two 16s or maybe 3 12s in second gear.
I hope you can use the manifold in original configuration. I hate to see a restored tractor that's been cut up the way you have to do to put on the vertical exhaust pipe.
 
(quoted from post at 14:03:53 03/13/09) As far as I know, the "gas manifold" that comes through the hood was never an original option. I would bet that it is the same manifold that you could buy for an F-30. .......................
.......I hope you can use the manifold in original configuration. I hate to see a restored tractor that's been cut up the way you have to do to put on the vertical exhaust pipe.

Well put LenNH! I sure hate to see a cold manifold [or a variable governor] put on one that still had the original, especially if the hood is in good shape. If it was already there, it makes sense as a "historical feature" too, but it seems the numbers are few enough of the Kerosene and combination manifolds around compared to the cold ones I sure like to see originals. There is supposed to be some power gained by the carb/manifold combination; likewise the variable governor is nice, but if there are no originals around it's hard to appreciate the updated ones or even know there was a difference.

I believe there may have been a special purpose version [like industrial, orchard, etc] that could have used a cold manifold. Power units likely did too; else I don't think 10-20s ever had a cold manifold [exhaust through the hood, and "updraft" carburator] as supplied. The 22-36 had a manifold with selectable baffles [early 15-30 I believe were near identical to the one in Dave's picture], and maybe Dave's 10-20s had similar arrangements, but the one pictured looks like the Kerosene type without selectors to me.
 
Len - thanks for all of the info. We are NOT going vertical through the hood. We are fabricating a pipe that will bend and go through the bottom of the side curtain like the original. I have two of the kerosene manifolds that are really busted up. Complete but busted. I can now take the time to find someone who is an artist at repairing these manifolds.

My rush is to get both tractors (1925 on steel, 1927 on rubber) ready to go back to the family farm as soon as possible. My Grandmother is 95 and it would be a joy for her to see the old tractors run on her farm again.
They will also be at a show in Roseville, IA over labor day.

While I might not have the original manifolds for a while, I will not modify the body in anyway that cannot be 'undone' to go back to original when the time comes. I also plan on putting steel bands with rubber over the steel cleats so I can show the old steel wheel tractor anywhere.

My uncles tell me they used to sit 1 kid on each side of the field when plowing. 1 would get it pointed at the other, jump off and go sit in the shade. When the tractor got close to the other side, the other guy would jump on and turn it around and send it back. I think they got tired of riding on those steel wheels as well.
 
how nice are they and how much and where do you have them my fender have lots of rust on the tops and some on the bottom and yes lots of dents did you buy new tin work for the one in your pics thanks
 
Thanks to Spiffy 1 for the kind remarks.
The note on the variable governor brings to mind what the "non-variable" governor was like. In a word, it didn't really govern unless the throttle was wide open. Moving the throttle lever toward "slow" simply closed the butterly at the carb. I have many, many memories of trying to rake hay with an F-20, using 3d or 4th gear to keep the noise down. Going uphill on part throttle, the engine would simply slow down, and going downhill, it would speed up. The reason for this is that the old-style governor works primarily by having the main governor springs pull the weights together, thus opening the throttle. Centrifugal force, working against the springs, would keep the throttle at the right opening to develop governed speed. This was, in effect, a "pre-calibrated" speed that was determined by the resistance of the springs. There was a slight adjustment via the strange-looking bolt on the back of the governor housing, just in front of the mag. This adjustment provided a slight counter-force to the main springs, as I understand it. The variable governors on these tractors have no springs on the weights. Spring tension is provided by the throttle lever, and the weights work against that tension. Partial tension means partial throttle, but WITH good governing action. A wonderful mechanical advance.
It is "interesting" that IHC put a variable governor on the F-12, but did not convert the other F-series, 10-20, W-30, 22-36 and probably others in that line to variable governor until the late 30s, maybe 1937, but in 1938 for sure.
There WERE late-model 10-20s with a variable governor. The little lever was replaced with a notched pull-rod, similar to the one on an F-12 and late model F-20. Have seen pictures of these in brochures, but can't put a date on them.
 
Dan,

I bought completely new fenders from fordson house. I will try and take some good pictures of my old fenders and send them to you in the next week or so.
 

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