Super C electrical issue revisited for the third

Anonymous-0 · Jul 24, 2012

I went to a local starter shop and just bought a reman starter instead of messing with my old one and just to have it checked out. I also had them check the start switch I had bought from Rural King. They threw away my switch and sold me a new one and I had to get new batt cables also. They recommended 2 ga. I put it all back together and pulled "the trigger". It turned over half way and fired and ran like it was brand new. That is a smooth and great running tractor. Only issue is now, the carb drips a tiny bit of gas when it is sitting. Turn it off and no drip but I might try and fix it sometime. Oh by the way, the new regulator is working and charging properly. Woohoo! Thanks to everyone that offered help and pointers

gene bender · Jul 24, 2012

They gave you bad advice when they said 2ga should have been 1ga as long as they are new with a good starter it will work but come winter tims. Whe the tractor was new it had 1ga so now here we are 60pluss yrs down the road and someone says ya dont need heavier cables. They just dont now the starting current draw. If I-H thought 2ga was enough they would have used them at the factory.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 24, 2012

I am just learning about this tuff so I have to take several peoples' advice. Someone from the forum suggested 00. I asked him about it and he said that was overkill. I asked what he put on all his Farmalls and he said that 2 ga was fine. I don't really know. I know that what was on it was way to small and 2 different sizes.

Why will it be different in the winter time? Honestly it probably won't even be out in the winter. Unless my 4 wheeler won't start and I can't push snow with it.

Just learning this stuff.

oldtanker · Jul 24, 2012

6 volt systems draw a lot of amps. The bigger the wire the better it works. Liter wires get hot faster too. In the winter when the engine is cold the starter has to work harder to chrank the engine.......which means it draws even more amps. Heck I use OO wires on my 12 volt tractors too. They are not that much more and I really hate standing out there trying to start a tractor at -20 that isn't cranking because I got cheap.

Rick

Anonymous-0 · Jul 24, 2012

Like I said I am learning.....

I thought 6v less volts than 12v so don't need to use heavy wire.

Will it make a differnece if I keep a battery tender on it all the time? I always keep everything plugged in to help all of my batteries.

teddy52food · Jul 24, 2012

You should be ok with those cables. Just keep the points & plugs in shape so it fires easy. I have those repair cable ends on mine that they say not to use & the kids are starting it all winter in mid Mn. Even with E10 that is a couple months old. Keep the battery charged full too.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 24, 2012

You guys have harsher winters than we do. Just bought these so I am gonna use them for now. If I start having problems then I will change them then. The tractor is a toy and pretty sure it won't even get out of the garge all winter.

rpirkle1 · Jul 24, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:03:24 07/24/12) Like I said I am learning.....

I thought 6v less volts than 12v so don't need to use heavy wire.

Will it make a differnece if I keep a battery tender on it all the time? I always keep everything plugged in to help all of my batteries.

Hi Brett,

There's a couple of electrical engineers on here who can explain it with more correct terminology than I can.... so perhaps they'll jump in. The short version... from a long ago high school physics class.

It takes a certain amount of 'work/power' (measured in watts IIRC) to turn an engine over. Work is effectively volts multiplied by amps ... so 6 volts takes twice as many amps to do the same work as a 12 volt system would. The amount of amps you can push through a wire (without losing excess amounts for heat) is directly related to the cross section of the wire... so to get more amps through you need bigger wire (smaller gauge #s).

Hope you're enjoying your Super C. They're great tractors.

Randy

Farmallhal · Jul 25, 2012

Randy, I've never seen it better described then you stated. Yes, heat generated is power lost at the starter which is just another type of energy. Another thing is to keep the cables as short as possible as available power to the starter is lost in excess length cables, Hal.

mkirsch · Jul 25, 2012

When you go to 12V the Amps DOUBLE. On 12V your starter motor is FOUR TIMES as powerful as on 6V.

You can get away with thinner cables on 12V because of all that excess power. Even with lots of loss in the cable, you will still have 2-3 times as much starting power on 12V.

The thicker cables are necessary with a 6V system because you don't have any excess power to lose. Thicker cables are more efficient at carrying electrical current.

Jim Becker · Jul 25, 2012

(quoted from post at 09:04:45 07/25/12) When you go to 12V the Amps DOUBLE. On 12V your starter motor is FOUR TIMES as powerful as on 6V.

ell, sort of but not really.

If you have 2 circuits designed to do the same job, one intended to be 6 volt and the other 12, the 12 volt circuit will draw half the current. Lower current only needs smaller wires. If you have a simple resistance circuit designed for 6 volts and apply 12 volts, it will draw twice the current until something melts.

However, a starter is not a resistance curcuit. It is (surprise!) a motor. When a motor is spinning, it acts like a generator. The voltage produced pushes back against the voltage from the battery, reducing the current that is flowing to the starter. The faster the starter spins, the greater the back voltage and the less the current. A free spinning starter produces a lot of back voltage and draws surprisingly little current. This is also why bad cables get hot so quickly when a starter is jammed. If the starter isn't turning, you have a virtual dead short.

teddy52food · Jul 25, 2012

You don't make much sense but it goes to show that the magnetic field comes from the atoms of the windings excited by the VOLTAGE. If you take 2 batteries of the same size & one is 6 volts & the other is 12 volts the starter will spin it faster on 12 volts. But that 12 volt can only put out half the amps of the same size 6.

mkirsch · Jul 25, 2012

You guys go ahead and believe whatever you want. Electricity is MAGIC I guess...

teddy52food · Jul 25, 2012

Nothing magical about it. If you were to double the amps(which you don't) you would need bigger cables yet.Voltage is determined by the # of cells in the battery. Amps are from the size and # of plates. A 12 volt of the same size as a 6 can't double the amps cause there are only half as many plates( more or less ) to a cell. It is the voltage that causes the starter to spin. Loose a couple volts & the starter slows down even if the amps are there.

Super C electrical issue revisited for the third

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

gene bender

Well-known Member

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

oldtanker

Well-known Member

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

teddy52food

Well-known Member

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member

rpirkle1

Member

Farmallhal

Well-known Member

mkirsch

Well-known Member

Jim Becker

Well-known Member

teddy52food

Well-known Member

mkirsch

Well-known Member

teddy52food

Well-known Member

Similar threads