Torque amplifier

Bill in IL · Jun 20, 2012

Working on a farmall 400. Torque is out on low side. I have never been into a torque and not afraid to get into on either. What normally is the problem when they are out on the low side? Looking for some advice though before I start.

I see there are heavy duty sprage type TA"s out there and standard duty. What is the difference?

I have the I&T manual but wondering if the IH torque service manual would be more beneficial.

the tractor vet · Jun 20, 2012

The big thing about doing one is safety . Having a set of splitting stands good blocking and a cherry picker, and floor jack. If all you are doing is removing and replacing as a unit the hard part is getting the ft. seal installed properly and getting the unit thru that seal with out rolling the lip and once that is done getting the big nut tight and locked in place. Now if you want adventure and you want to rebuild it yourself this is where the fun begins and here ya got to read the book and the I T manual will do . the cause for the low side to be out is that the ramp and rollers are shot and the surface of the carrier is chewed up . Myself i would get a rebuilt unit and stuff it in . Now as to should i buy the HD one or the std. one , thats up to you as for me the std one will do just fine since i doubt that your going to be plowing 100 aces a year for the next fifteen or twenty years with it.

Andrew Z · Jun 20, 2012

Agree 100% with Vet, As far as safety its a heavy critter and second replacing the unit as a whole, i went though the same questions a few years ago with my 450... Get the whole unit and replace. As for the heavy or standard duty, I talked to "Lemans" (sp)in PA. And he said its more about the way you use it, that is properly and not use it as a break etc. I ended up with the standard duty considering the same unit is used in the 660 a 85 + hp 6 cly high speed engine.

I have some engine work done to my 450 currently in the 70-75 hp range, and the TA works great and thats pulling in 10,000lbs classes etc.

Also make sure you replace the dry TA clutch in front of the TA new pressure plate and disk, Also replace the main engine clutch while your in there as well.

Andrew

riverbend · Jun 20, 2012

I put a rebuilt TA in my 350 and went with the sprague type. It was about $150 more than the standard, but I figure that it will last for as long as I'll need this tractor. The price difference was nothing compared to the amount of work to split the tractor and reassemble it.

Greg

TJV · Jun 20, 2012

Depending on what you will use the tractor for if it is a show/parade piece with little to no workout i will opt. to rebuild the ta myself. If the surfaces on the ramp are fairly smooth and not chewed up you can put new rollers the brass push pins the put pressure on the rollers, the springs that push the pins and the rubber plugs the hold the springs in new, all those parts were available from case ih yet this past winter. Along with that there is a couple of oil seals that I replace when in there along with the ta clutch throw out bearing. I think it was less than 200 in parts or at least the last time I did it is was. If you plan on pulling the tractor hard over the next few years I might consider a rebuilt one. I have had good luck rebuilding it myself (and saving $'s) and if you like a little bit of a challenge its not that bad but i highly reccomend getting an I&T book for guidence and adjustment.

Kevin Meier · Jun 20, 2012

A heavy duty has a 32 shoe sprag for 4the times the holding power over the standard 8 roller and ramp. I would reccomend the hd for running a loader and pulling heavy equipment but not for pulling hay wagons and parade tractor use. I can help you with rebuilding yours piece by piece or the entire ta. Feel free to email.

rhtx55 · Jun 20, 2012

The T/A clutch is probably shot, a lot cheaper to replace.
but as they say....
as long as you are in there......
Might as well rebuild the T/A or replace with a new sprag type, along witth the tranny mainshaft bearing , seal, rear engine main seal, clutch, throw out bearing.....it's pricey but you don't want to have to splitting it again very soon.
Depends on the depth of your pockets, & how you wish to proceed, just fix what needs fixing now (much cheaper) against what could go wrong later.

Old-F20 · Jun 20, 2012

im pretty much a big pre 39 collector, but im doing a 450LP right now and it was my first adventure into doing a T/A.

as tractor vet pointed out splitting stands are MANDATORY!!! you dont want this thing falling over, or falling off some blocking since you will have it split into 3 sections.

i rebuilt my T/A myself and i thought it was really easy. bought a ramp and roller kit from A&I and a gasket/seal kit. all told had about 210 dollars in it. it was my first one, but i wouldnt hestitate to do another one any day of the week.

heres a pic of how far down to split it to get the T/A out right

heres a pic of the T/A itslef pulled in half. the little round piece in the lower left is the ramp and rollers. this is the piece that is about 95% of the problems with mechanical T/A's

sflem849 · Jun 20, 2012

Search "Charlie's Repair" for some pictures of splitting for a TA and some good splitting stands.

Bill in IL · Jun 20, 2012

Thanks for the great pictures of the process!

Did the cat help much? Mine just get in the way and get
banned from the shop.

Old-F20 · Jun 20, 2012

(quoted from post at 20:28:05 06/20/12)

Did the cat help much? Mine just get in the way and get
banned from the shop.

she's good moral support, but still cant fetch wrenches without opposable thumbs

mkirsch · Jun 21, 2012

The TA clutch is what gives you direct drive. If that is out, the tractor would drive around in TA all the time. You can tell because the tractor will freewheel down hills.

If the low side is out AND the TA clutch is out, the tractor is dead in the water. It won't move at all.

As for standard vs. heavy-duty, keep in mind that these tractors had standard TAs from the factory, and were used hard every day. A lot of these "bad" TAs are the originals, or 2nd, and the tractors are up to 60 years old. You'll never wear another TA out in your lifetime, standard or HD.

Torque amplifier

Bill in IL

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the tractor vet

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Andrew Z

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riverbend

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TJV

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Kevin Meier

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rhtx55

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Old-F20

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sflem849

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Bill in IL

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Old-F20

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mkirsch

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