Farmall Oil: Detergent VS. non detergent.

Anonymous-0 · May 13, 2012

What kind of oil is best for a tractor? Can you go from detergent to non detergent and back? Thanks.

CNKS · May 13, 2012

Some say using detergent after nondetergent will cause loose crud and ruin the engine, others say no. Detergent has been sold since the 50's. Except for some diehards few tractors have it in their crankcase. When I buy a tractor, I simply drain the old oil out and put detergent in. Probably best to drop the pan and clean it out. It will have crud in it regardless of whether detergent or non detergent has been used. In other words people saying to use nondetergent are spreading an old wive's tale.

Mlkgsmer · May 13, 2012

Use nondetergent when engine does not have filter to catch the garbage that a detergent oil would take to a filter. Meaning that some engines were made to have stuff settle out and stay there and others want it to travel to a filter.

Anonymous-0 · May 13, 2012

Thanks Mlkgsmer. Can a engine go back to non detergent after running detergent.

The Red · May 13, 2012

On the Hs and Ms, 4 areas where you will find non-detergent oil gunk. The Oil pan, the inlet screen assembly on the oil pump and the push rod chamber above the coil/distributor area. Sometimes on the top of the head under the valve cover but not much. Clean those areas and you get most of the problems cleaned out. Then no problem going to detergent.

Mlkgsmer · May 13, 2012

If you have a filter, why? But if it does not I would pull pan, clean best I could and run nondetergent oil. If your cleaning an engine with a filter use auto trans fluid and over fill. Crank splash works great on a hot engine and let run a half hour. Drain and repeat if desired. Auto trans works great, oil with a lot of detergent. I do this frequently to semi and earth moving engines at work. Just do it on an early change for better results. To prove it, get hands nasty dirty, put some auto trans in hands and wash up.

mkirsch · May 13, 2012

Nobody has ever been able to provide any proof that switching oil types does any damage. Just go ahead and do it.

Wayne in MN · May 13, 2012

Why?? Detergent oil is best so just select your brand & viscosity and forget the "debate".

Non-detergent is best used in a non-combustion situation such as an air compressor.

David G · May 13, 2012

I agree with Wayne.

CenTex Farmall · May 13, 2012

Modern oils, in addition to detergents also have additives that reduce wear, prevent corrosion, neutralize acids and make the oil more heat resistant.

If you were born in 1950 you wouldn't insist on only using medicine that was available in 1950 would you? It's the same with oil. The new stuff has just flat superior.

Faster346 · May 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:30:14 05/13/12) Nobody has ever been able to provide any proof that switching oil types does any damage. Just go ahead and do it.

I can. On an old C that I purchased I did the usual clean up and oil change, put a normal detergent oil in it and a few hours later the engine was making noise and lost oil pressure. Pulled it apart and there were loose chunks of crud floating around everywhere in the pan and engine. I'll stick with my Napa non-detergent 30w for now on...just because I'll never know what was ran before..and don't want to go through that again.

Bud DeLong · May 13, 2012

There is a reason some truck engines go 1,000 000 miles before overhaul! Big filters and a lot of high quality oil! AS for the no filter i use 5w30 in my 1914 Model T Ford with no problems! Some of the old tractors are splash or even with a pump it may only fill troughs under the rods?? Straght 30 takes a long time to start moving before it's warm so how much oil do you get at start up?? Bud.

NoNewParts · May 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:21:24 05/13/12) What kind of oil is best for a tractor?

modern diesel rated detergent oil in your choice of weight, depending
on where you live and engine condition.

tractors are our hobby, and on the Farmall brand, most are easy
to drop the pan and clean it out immediately when you buy a tractor.
Don't flush first, drop and clean first, you never know how much muck is in there.
All I've had needed it, and good to take a look anyway for
whatever...pieces of piston skirts, etc....oil pick up problems..
[b:b22ecf1569]Then[/b:b22ecf1569] put in some new cheap oil with some ATF/MMO/Flush,
drive it around awhile, drain it and put
in the good oil and a new filter.
cheap insurance. I save the flush 1/2 hour oil for lube and cleaning stuff.

SadFarmall · May 14, 2012

I have used both detergent and non-detergent oils in various motors. If a motor is old and tired, then I just keep going with the non-detergent oil until I psyche myself up to do an overhaul. Then I run a detergent oil for the last time it works. Cleans out a great deal of the junk all by itself. Basically, if a motor is in good order, with good pistons, sleeves, rings and oil scraper(s) then a detergent oil is fine. If a motor is a bit tired and is keeping compression by virtue of carbon build-up then a detergent oil will very quickly remove the build up and bring the engine rebuild date much closer than might otherwise have been the case.
SadFarmall

dej(Jed) · May 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:21:24 05/13/12) What kind of oil is best for a tractor? Can you go from detergent to non detergent and back? Thanks.

Just use the newer oils. Stay away from the lighter oils though. Old tractors don't have todays bearings. Since most tractors used a 30w , I would stay with a 15w40. The viscosity of a 15w40 is close to a 30w.

Anonymous-0 · May 14, 2012

ah no.

At operating temperature 10W30 has the same viscocity of 30W, when engine is cold (Winter) 10W30 has the viscosity of 10 weight which has much more viscosity than 30W at operating temp.

The only problem with using 10W30 is that under extreme conditions (conditions that won't be seen with these engines - extreme heat) multigrade oil can break down. The bigger the multiple from the W number (in this case 10) to the operating temp number (in this case 30) the miore suseptible they are to thermal break down (does not normally apply to synthetics). 10W30 has a multiple of 3 - its a fairly stable oil even. 5W30 has a multiple of 6 and won't stand up as well to high heat as 10W30 which in turn doesn't handle high heat as well as straight 30W.

CNKS · May 14, 2012

I agree, except there is crud from the top to bottom of the engines. If you use any kind of cleaner on those areas it can run down and loosen other crud. I simply do not think nondetergent is used much anymore. That is after buying a Super A, 2 C's, an H, Super H, M, Super M, 350 and a 460 (not likely ND in it), with no problems.

dej(Jed) · May 14, 2012

(quoted from post at 06:38:19 05/14/12) ah no.

At operating temperature 10W30 has the same viscocity of 30W, when engine is cold (Winter) 10W30 has the viscosity of 10 weight which has much more viscosity than 30W at operating temp.

The only problem with using 10W30 is that under extreme conditions (conditions that won't be seen with these engines - extreme heat) multigrade oil can break down. The bigger the multiple from the W number (in this case 10) to the operating temp number (in this case 30) the miore suseptible they are to thermal break down (does not normally apply to synthetics). 10W30 has a multiple of 3 - its a fairly stable oil even. 5W30 has a multiple of 6 and won't stand up as well to high heat as 10W30 which in turn doesn't handle high heat as well as straight 30W.

I have worked as a CLS(Certifed Lubrication Specialist) for over 30 years now and I am constantly amazed at what I hear. There are so many experts on here you will get lots of mis information, so be careful. Multi viscosity oils break down quickly, while straight weights don't. Multi visc oils were created to sell light oil and to facilitate oil pumps in cold climates.

pete 23 · May 14, 2012

You sound like you may have some answers here. Is
what some refer to as shearing of oil pretty much
the same as breaking down of oil.

dhermesc · May 14, 2012

I'm surprised that someone that knows anything about oil would say that the viscosity of a 15w40 is close to a 30w.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/effects-of-shearing/

Conclusion
Base stock oils (especially the newer GF-3 SL) have better resistance to heat like a synthetic does.

The higher the spread between the bottom number and the top number the more VI improvers are relied on for maintaining the viscosity. Better to keep the numbers closer.

All base oils film strength will shear under stress or pressure. The real way to help prevent wear is to maintain higher levels of antiwear additives. This in conjunction with a good base stock which resists breakdown to high heat.

Farmall Oil: Detergent VS. non detergent.

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