Super M Stages,Just a little confused here????

Hey guys,

I have been on here for a short while now and I thought I had the "stage" thing figured out?So anyone,correct me if I am wrong.

Stage 1: 2 bolt starter bell housing,battery under tank,belly pump,OR pump delete.LATER stage 1s could have had battery under seat with belly pump or NO pump at all. Have seen most 1952s set up like this.

Stage 2: 3 bolt starter bell housing,Battery under seat,MOST LIKELY live hydraulics with hydraulic tank under fuel tank(Lift All control),but COULD HAVE BEEN ordered with a belly pump or pump delete???? MOST likely a later 1953 OR a 1954 built in the first quarter of the year 1954.

Stage 3: ANY Super M TA EVER built in 1954!

Some guys on Red Power are calling Standard,NON M TA Super Ms Stage 3s.I am not thinking this is correct?

You understand it the same way I do.

K

There is a serial break between stage 1 and 2 of both the SH and SM. That is not to say that all stage 2's had live hydraulics. It is possible that some late stage 1's could have had the battery under the seat, also probably impossible to tell if the dealer or owner did it instead of the factory. IH sometimes snuck things into the last few models of an existing tractor. But the thing to go by is the serial number. The serials of the change to the battery under the seat and to live hydraulics are the same, I haven't paid much attention to the other minor ones such as number of bolts holding the starter, etc. The RPM people are less knowledgeable about the letter series than the ones on this forum. They are more inclined to be posting about the 460/560 up, and in a lot of cases the 4 digit numbers. Many more mistakes on that forum about the letter series than this one. Stage 1 and Stage 2 were in-house designations that caught on with the general public. Stage 3--I don't know. Since the SMTA was different enough from the SM, there is no need to use it. I don't know what you mean by a standard non MTA. There are MTA's without a torque amplifier, many of those were ordered. The MTA decal was round with no torque amplifier "leg". There is no reason to call SM's built in 54 stage 3's. Remember IH did not have yearly models. They more or less introduced a new model when it was ready, or sometimes not ready as with the 560.

Mike, All of what you said with the addition of...
As I understand it in the most simplest way
Stage I, looks like a regular M with the larger engine and disk breaks, but there were variants later on
Stage II, Super C style seat w/ batt under seat, Live hydraulics with tank under fuel tank and all stage I equipment.
Stage III, all Super MTAs and variants
Stage 4 of the Super M lineage, AKA--Farmall 400!!
The 400 was the pinnacle of the SM line of tractors.
I will refer you to the Farmall Bible, Guy Fays, Letter Series Book. Chapter 9, Page 103, 1st and 2nd paragraph. Hope this helps!
Later,
John A.

What about the 450?

mike, A Super MTA, Could be "Ordered" TA Delete, It is still considered a Super MTA! Not sure what a standard nomenclature is all about.
The W series (Wheatland) models are a "standard" tread design meaning non-adjustable!
Hope this helps!
Later,
John A.

Stage 1 gas, 2 bolt starter mount. Battery under tank. Stage 1 diesel, 3 bolt starter and clutch housing. Batterys, one under tank and other to right rear on transmission top. Both fuels used a starter switch located in the rear fuel tank support. Serial numbers L 50001 to 504801 and F 501 to 28174
Stage 2 gas, 3 bolt starter, battery under seat.
Stage 2 SMD, 3 bolt starter and clutch housing, but clutch housing was changed a little from a stage 1 SMD. Stage 2 same clutch housing for both fuels. Stage 2 SMD battery under seat. Both fuels used a starter switch mounted on the starter. Stage 2 could be equiped with the engine driven liftall or transmission driven liftall attachment. With engine driven liftall the reservoir is located under rear of fuel tank. Serial numbers L 504802 to L 512541 and F 28175 and F 52627.
Stage 3, any SM serial # 60001 or higher. SMTA series. Engine driven hydraulics or none.

Delta Red, !!!!!! My question too. I am just referring to what is considered the Holy Grail of Farmalls
IMO,---The 450 simply refined the 400 one final step in that Lineage.
Later,
John A.
OBTW.... Sure do like that old M with that neat duals set up, Not a shabby set of JD 71s either.
Later,.....

OK, LAST comment.

What I meant by NON M TA Super Ms.I DID NOT mean Super M TA with deleted TA.I meant just a standard Super M.

Reading farther down,I see comments on "TA delete" Super M TAs.I would STILL consider this a Stage 3,Correct????

What about the EARLY 1954s that were a regular Super M(NOT the ones that was ordered "TA delete"????) They did not have the newer transmission TA section in them did they???Just the standard older middle section????) These would still be a Stage 2 wouldnt they?????

Just trying to be politically correct here!(and Know what I am talking about!) lol

I have heard MANY comments before. Farmall would run out all of it's inventory of the older style parts untill they made the "running change" into the newer parts.(Like some Super Ms had teardrop headlights,and then changed into the "pancake" style.I would think this would be hard to determine by a serial number break myself?????) This would account for Super Ms having batterys under the seats with belly pumps????? Maybe they ran out of the battery boxes under the fuel tanks BEFORE the ran out of belly pumps,hence some tractors haveing belly pumps AND batterys under the seat????


I know I am "rambling" here,but with this kind of production system,you might se ALL KINDS of Super Ms with "odd ball" combinations of newer and older parts installed by IH. Then throw in the custom "customer ordered" options(like "hydraulics delete")and you have the opportunity to have some really "odd duck,one off" tractors being built sometimes.

I know,probably TO intense about the subject matter,but I think it is cool! I love the entire M family all the way thru the 450s.I think they were the most reliable work horses ever built.

Any Super M with a serial number prior to 60001 built in 1954 would still be a Stage TWO.

Whatever you want to call them there was SM tractors of one type below the serial numbers I posted and one type above the serial numbers until they stopped being made. Ones above the serial numbers had chassis changes to accomadate a engine driven liftall attachment if used. If tractors serial numbers F28175 and L504802 were equiped with a transmission driven liftall attachment they still had the other chassis changes that the engine driven pump tractors.
Exept a rear fuel tank support was used in place of the reservoir with special bracket for the relocated control rods Also a seal, bearing retainer and drive dog nut added to the transmission counter shaft.
Serial numbers 60001 up are considered a SMTA chassis T/A or not.
Think the only reason IH changed the clutch housing for Stage 2 tractors was they finaly wised up and decided why are we making 2 different housings when one would do.
If a stage 1 tractor has a battery box under the seat it got this attachment (pic) purchased later or off another tractor or just the parts bought.