farmall super A... water pump or not???

Im overhauling a super a and am being told that since it takes the bigger 3 7/16 sleeves and its past the sn#310299 mark that its supposed to have a water pump. Someone has put a new lower water outlet on it so im kind of wondering if it had a pump and started leaking and they went the cheap way out by doing away with it.

Engine Serial Number will tell you alot. Engines in these old tractors have been swapped around for years. THe block and head part numbers will also tell you something. The part numbers will end in "R1" or "R2". The engine serial number will be used like the tractor serial number and they should be close. It can be found on the side of the block just behind the governor on the distributor side. It is found on the flat surface painted silver in my photo

(quoted from post at 18:12:00 04/12/12) Im overhauling a super a and am being told that since it takes the bigger 3 7/16 sleeves and its past the sn#310299 mark that its supposed to have a water pump. Someone has put a new lower water outlet on it so im kind of wondering if it had a pump and started leaking and they went the cheap way out by doing away with it.

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the engine numbers are what ive been going by that say it should have a pump, i also see that they make 2 different style pumps, one where yours is and one in place of the lower water outlet

Unless your tractor is a Super-A1 (second series, late 1954), it did not come with a water pump. It didn't need one. Even with an overbore kit it is still unlikely to need one. The engine in the picture is a late version of the C-123 as used in the 140 and 240 tractors.

The water pump that replaces the coolant inlet was optional on the C and standard on the Super C, Super A-1, 100, 130, 200 and 230. If you want to add one, you will also need a different fan assembly, fan belt and to do it right you will need a different coolant outlet and thermostat.

In either case, be sure to use the correct head gasket. They have different size passages depending on water pump or not.

really need to know since they changed coolant port sizes when a pump was used im told and i dont want to get it together and start using it to find out it needed one

While it is true that the engine may have been changed--The engine and serial numbers are not the same. The ONLY Super A that "must" have a water pump is the Super A1, chassis serial 356001-357958. Also the 3 7/16 you mention is the OUTSIDE diameter of the sleeve or the hole in the block at the oring. IF your block has a part number of 354898 it will take a sleeve of 3.25 in INSIDE diameter, otherwise 3.125 inches. If not a Super A1 you do not need a water pump, all it does is more or less "correct" a plugged cooling system. If the block has been hot tanked and a clean radiator you don't need one. If it makes you feel better, use it. And you can use the engine serial to estimate the chassis serial and vice versa, but unless you know how to do that, I don't, you cannot use the engine serial to tell whether or not it is supposed to have a water pump. Also, the Super A1 can have the water pump removed and the head gasket changed and it becomes thermosiphon. At some point in time, IH had to do away with thermosiphon, they chose to do it with the SA and SC. Unless you have the taller grill and radiator, you do not need to be concerned about it.

Unless you are planing some heavy bush-hogging in 100 degree weather (expect a partially blocked radiator in that case) you will not need a water pump. I doubt it came with one. You can check by looking at the fan and comparing it with an SC or 200 fan. The fan for Thermo-siphon units was more aggressive and did not include the cut out needed to miss the body of the water pump. If you did not originally have a water pump it will be difficult to add one now.

Castings are so similar as to make no difference. The water distribution was regulated with a head gasket with different water passage holes in it. thus regulating the flow. Larger with thermosiphon, smaller with the Pump. Jim

(quoted from post at 19:33:45 04/12/12) Unless you are planing some heavy bush-hogging in 100 degree weather (expect a partially blocked radiator in that case) you will not need a water pump. I doubt it came with one. You can check by looking at the fan and comparing it with an SC or 200 fan. The fan for Thermo-siphon units was more aggressive and did not include the cut out needed to miss the body of the water pump. If you did not originally have a water pump it will be difficult to add one now.

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I just tried a Super A fan assembly on a 130 block with a water pump and there is plenty of clearance for the fan blades from the water pump.


See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G8r4YGZTbI&list=UUmV4Ud6hHHOGnlasYBH6o3w&index=1&feature=plcp