Super M-TA RARITY. (THIS outta get good!!!!)

mike1972chev · Mar 30, 2012

HI,

I have been kicked around a little on this one,MORE than once!

I know there are ALOT of M-TA lovers on this forum.(BTW,I AM one of them too!) But alot of folks are acting like they are just about NON exsistant anymore.

According to Guy Fay's data,there were 26,924 of them built in 1954.That is ALOT of tractors in that year.In that SAME year AND 1955,there were ONLY 24,440 Farmall 400s built!!!! (AND ,they had that "new fangled" thing called "Fasthitch"!)

As my "Daddy"(AND others on this sight!) said:"Their is about a "spit" of difference between the "Z" code M-TAs and the EARLY 400s.But their were LESS 400s built in 2 years of production compared to 3/4 or more of a year's production of the Super M-TA???? HUH???

Well,the poor old,straight up 1954 Super M (NON TA)WILL NEVER get it's due as being "rare",I guess???

And ,BTW,The info in the "production numbers" section of this forum is "corrupt".It says around 2500 in the M-TA section.THAT is about the amount of DIESELS built,isnt it????

Sflem 849,isnt this the part you jump CLEAN all over me??? lol I am ready to take my "wippin" NOW!

sflem849 · Mar 30, 2012

I thought they made the SMTAs for about a year and a half and called them all 54s, but I have never seen it in writing. That is what one of the local old timer collectors had told me.

I have never said SMTAs are rare, but they are bad azz. That is why they are expensive.

It still wasn't a TA high crop...just as SMDV... :lol:

BillyinStoughton · Mar 30, 2012

I could leave my dad's farm outside of Stoughton, WI and hit the pavement and take you to see 8 of them within 5 miles...and all of them still in their work clothes.

I still have a spot for em' in my heart though.

Billy

CNKS · Mar 30, 2012

As has been said many times on this forum, rarity has nothing to do with it. The MTA is collectible (perhaps to excess) because it was the 1st tractor with live PTO and TA. The 400 was an improvement mainly because of better hydraulics. Also stated many times -- it does not have to make sense.

CNKS · Mar 30, 2012

Also fast hitch, I forgot the 400 was the first large tractor with it.

mike1972chev · Mar 30, 2012

Thats cool Billy!!! I have said MANY,MANY times I like the "work horses" tractors just a little more than the "show ponys" (But I love em all!!!!)
But EVERYONE keeps acting like they aint out there anymore.

I DIG them,but the Ms thru 450s are ALL my faves too!

mike1972chev · Mar 30, 2012

Rarity DOES have something to do with it when you are a SUPER M-TA High Crop Diesel!!!! ($75,000.00 for a certain one!) : )

I get what you are saying though.

When I bought my Super M,the Super M-TAs were going for about $1500.00 MORE than mine.

mike1972chev · Mar 30, 2012

Says Who????

Does not: Better hydrauics+ LOWER production numbers in 2 years + FIRST "Fast Hitch" = BETTER COLLECTABLE TRACTOR????

Just sayin.

(BTW,STILL LOVE THE M-TAs)

CNKS · Mar 30, 2012

Mike, the whole point of my answer was "it does not have to make sense". To collectors and others the MTA is a desireable tractor, because it was the 1st IH tractor to have TA and live hyd. Sort of like serial 501 of any IH tractor being more "valuable" than the next 200000, regardless of the improvements made afterward.

mkirsch · Mar 30, 2012

Rare has nothing to do with it. Never has.

mike1972chev · Mar 30, 2012

I was just trying to make sense of it.

Sure,I am cool with that.

I just think it is funny how several tractors built around it are in FEWER numbers than the Super M- TAs production #s

Basically,it is a Super M with a Planatary set in it's transmission case.

BTW,Farmall had ALOT of "first"!!!!

The 400 and the 54 Super M is MORE rare!!!!

Deal with it!

Anonymous-0 · Mar 30, 2012

I think they are so collectable because they are a rare version of the M. People love M's but they are very common so different ones become very desirable.

sflem849 · Mar 30, 2012

(quoted from post at 15:10:17 03/30/12) I could leave my dad's farm outside of Stoughton, WI and hit the pavement and take you to see 8 of them within 5 miles...and all of them still in their work clothes.

I still have a spot for em' in my heart though.

Billy

I know I have seen plenty in that area, too. Tons of C/SC type tractors at work in the tobacco fields as well.

Doesn't a certain farm named after the township that is home to Utica have a couple? IIRC I saw at least one on their uncles farm.

gab · Mar 30, 2012

Seems like there's more Super MTAs now than were built when you think about how old they are. A neighbor to the south of me has a real rough one, there's two like new trailer gueens a mile west of me, a gas and a diesel. Another guy to the north a few miles has two, seen one sell at an auction three years ago that was pure junk for $3400 dollars and you would think since 1954 that a bunch of them had to end up in the junk yard

CenTex Farmall · Mar 30, 2012

I think it"s a combination of the old sheet metal look along with the bells and whistles of the t/a and ipto. I have two that I haven"t worked on yet. I bought them because they came new with the LP conversion. I could buy two gasoline ones tomorrow.

I agree with on the 400"s. I have two low SN 400lp"s, One a good unrestored runner and the other a parts basket case. I know the runner is covered with Z code dates except for the block.
The 400 takes the MTA and adds 3 spool hydraulics in addition to the FH! What"s not to love?

rustred · Mar 31, 2012

nothing rare about the farmalls, as there was a pile of them . its the standard ihc tractors that are more collectable cause there is way fewer of them built. only 3005 ta standards built. also the 400 and 450 standards are few in numbers also.

Mark Peters · Mar 31, 2012

The thing is that "collectablity" is also dictated by desirability or demand. Low production numbers alone don`t make a tractor more collectable if not as many people are after them.. The law of supply and demand, sort of. I don`t get the MTA "mystique" thing either, but lots of people like the MTA`s, so the price is determined by the market for them.

mkirsch · Mar 31, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:56:22 03/30/12) Seems like there's more Super MTAs now than were built when you think about how old they are.

Nah, you just weren't paying attention back then. Plus, they've been "concentrated" because there were a lot more farms around back then, and no antique tractor shows, no ebay, no Internet.

I suspect that a larger percentage of Super MTAs are still out there than any other tractor, though. If 40% of Farmall H's are still out there, I would bet 80% of Super MTAs are still out there.

mkirsch · Mar 31, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:28:23 03/30/12) I was just trying to make sense of it.

Sure,I am cool with that.

I just think it is funny how several tractors built around it are in FEWER numbers than the Super M- TAs production #s

Basically,it is a Super M with a Planatary set in it's transmission case.

BTW,Farmall had ALOT of "first"!!!!

The 400 and the 54 Super M is MORE rare!!!!

Deal with it!

Deal with what, exactly? Seems like YOU are the one that needs to "deal."

For the umpteenth time, rare has nothing to do with it. There are dozens of IH models that were built in much smaller numbers than the Super MTA, yet people won't pay anywhere near as much for them.

It's simple supply and demand. There is a limited supply of Super MTAs, and every IH collector wants one. When one gets scrapped, the price goes up. When the hobby gets more popular the price goes up.

craigreavley · Mar 31, 2012

I am not certain, but I think there were fewer 450s builts than any of of them. I just spent 4 hours the other day drilling oats with our 450. Dad has a couple 450s. They have the guttsiest throaty sounding engine and all kinds of power. dad says they have more cubic inch than our 706

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sflem849 · Mar 31, 2012

(quoted from post at 05:34:43 03/31/12) The thing is that "collectablity" is also dictated by desirability or demand. Low production numbers alone don`t make a tractor more collectable if not as many people are after them.. The law of supply and demand, sort of. I don`t get the MTA "mystique" thing either, but lots of people like the MTA`s, so the price is determined by the market for them.

My coworker has yet to grasp this concept with his JD 40w.

State of Jefferson · Mar 31, 2012

I love my SM-TA. Don't love the fuel consumption so much...
Happens to be a diesel SM-TA sitting in the weeds about 5 miles from me. Keep tryin to figure out how to see if it's for sale(and how to pay for it).
I know it'd need a BUNCH of work. But I'd just feel better if it was sitting in my yard, instead of his...

Ben

mike1972chev · Mar 31, 2012

STAY AFTER IT! Fix it up.

mike1972chev · Mar 31, 2012

Love those 281 cubes!

BTW ,this was my 2nd choice of Farmall to own and use if I couldnt get a Super M.

Good lookin ride ya got there!

D Slater · Mar 31, 2012

Wouldn't call a farmall 400 low production. Serial numbers went from 501 to 41485. For farmalls the 350 was a lower production than a SMTA or 450.
If 26924 SMTA tractors were built some would be missing a serial # since they numbered 60001 to 83523. Think some of your poor old 54 regular SM tractors may be included in the production total above.

sflem849 · Mar 31, 2012

54 SMs are stupid. I would compare them to early 99 Powerstrokes. They should have just waited another half year and then rolled out the best thing ever.

mike1972chev · Mar 31, 2012

I agree D Slater.

I am going off of Guy Fay's "stats" from the IH data book. There are a few errors in it,as far as numbers.

BTW,that 26924 count was right out of his book!!!

sflem849 · Mar 31, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:19:05 03/31/12) I agree D Slater.

I am going off of Guy Fay's "stats" from the IH data book. There are a few errors in it,as far as numbers.

BTW,that 26924 count was right out of his book!!!

The date code paragraph also transposed the month and day positions. (Pg 11) When you read the Farmall Cub website they show an example that would prove Fay's book wrong because the month number is higher than 12. The example given in Fay's book would allow the month and day to be transposed.

Just pulled out the book.

Letter Series castings use a "day-month-year" format, with the year represented by a letter (12-3-K, for example). The letter code translates to a year ("K" refers to 1941". Early Letter Series tractors don't have an abundance of dated parts. By teh mid-1940s, hoever, large parts were labeled more consistently.

The TM Tractor Parts website shown an example of 8-26-Q. There is no way that could be day-month-year.
http://www.external_link/id/id_004.htm

I'm sure Guy Fay has had it thrown at him a million times. There is no way some of these angry old timers would let something like that slide. :lol:

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

This book is a little confusing???

I am looking at the 450 Farmalls.It shows the total produced and then it is showing how many were made in each individual year separatly.The total amounts dont add up correctly.

oldtanker · Apr 1, 2012

There are a number of factors that dictate the value of an older tractor, most have nothing to due with production numbers.

The M-TA is popular because it was the first Farmall with the TA. Numbers produced matter little as this was the first TA tractor as I understand it. So for any serious collector it's a must have. That makes it worth more because of demand. Other things can factor into old tractor values. Think about it. Why are the Ford N series worth more than an H in the same condition ( the H is a better tractor than an N with a better engine and brakes)? Because they are more useful for a small land owner than the H simpely because of the availability of implements (many are available new today, but try finding a new ground lift one bottom plow) (add a 3 point to and H and it becomes much more versitile). Plus for the collector who can have but one tractor they are smaller so it's easier to trailer and store. All these factors add value to the tractor.

Rick

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

Stupid,HUH?

I bet they all did as much work as those M-TAs

(BTW,this is the answer I expected from you.)

Best thing EVER??? That SH!T is laughable !!!!

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

Well,arguing that fact.

The reason 1 of 8 Case High crops IS valuable is because of this reason.

LOW numbers

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

There is a limited supply of ALOT of tractors!

They quit building alot of them 50+ years ago.

NOT every IH collector wants one.I dont want it. Mine pulls a plow,grader blade,Bush Hog,ECT. MOST of the M-TAs pull a parade float with American flags jammed in thier grills! HOORAY!
BTW,I AINT buying tor M-TA for $10,000.00 so YOU get over it.

lol

I agree with earlier statements that the PRE letter series were built in fewer #s.

sflem849 · Apr 1, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:29:56 04/01/12) Stupid,HUH?

I bet they all did as much work as those M-TAs

(BTW,this is the answer I expected from you.)

Best thing EVER??? That SH!T is laughable !!!!

I was messing with you...make it what you want.

I do think Ford should have waited another couple months before they came out with the Super Duty.

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

I aint "messin" with NOBODY!!!

BTW,Dont EVER compare some "junk A$$ Ford to our Farmalls EVER AGAIN!!!

(I know nothing about the Super Dutys!!! (I am a Chevrolet/IH loadstar man.)

mike1972chev · Apr 1, 2012

The fact IS that IH built about the same amount of tractors in those years.(BTW,the book is WAY OFF from it's own errors.)

I want an F 30 4x MORE than an M-TA,but if it would make certain people happy,I will go ask my neibor If he will sell me his so that my life will be complete??? He lives a mile away from me and they have had it for ever.

I guess my opening offer should be at least $20,000.00 ?????

I should feel satisfied after getting it,because THIS is the "Holy F@CKING Grail" of tractors. Right??? L M A O

Anonymous-0 · Apr 1, 2012

Yea,

I missed the SMDV NOT having that "magical lever" on the left side of the gear case !!! That is about it my friend!!!!( You needed something to "feed on" ,so I gave you a bone there!)

The rest of my statements stand!!!!!

lol

BillyinStoughton · Apr 2, 2012

The township of Christiana...and yup...they've got a couple of them. You're right about the C and SC out that way. It's not rarity during tobacco harvest to see four or five of them in one field hauling loads. I know of one gentleman outside of Utica who has nothing but SC's. His logic was that if you had one model of tractor it was a lot easier to teach the hired help...and he's right!

Super M-TA RARITY. (THIS outta get good!!!!)

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