Leroy - I need rake help!

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

On the IH rake I've been working on - 4 bar enclosed gear.

at the gear end of the main reel, there's the big cast "eccentric" - with an outer raceway and inner raceway.

on the inner raceway, there's the main bearing where the reel's main shaft goes through.

On that same cast part, there a small hole in center of the whole part. I BELIEVE that's where the linkage from the lifting lever mounts - on a pin or bolt through that hole.

BUT - What does the end of the screw crank (for adjusting the pitch of the teeth) mount to???

The manual is very unclear on this.

Does it mount to the same hole in the eccentric that the lift linkage attaches to?

Or am I missing a part???

I know pictures would make this a lot easier but I of course can't find my )#(*$# camera right now!!

I do have one picture of what I'm calling the inner race of the eccentric. The small hole in the middle is the one I think the lifting linkage goes to.

In the manual there's a picture that makes it look like I'm missing a part that the crew crank attaches to (#3 in image number 9 if you happen to have the same manual)

But it's very hard to make anything out in that illustration.

My parts rake is a three bar - and it's VERY different in that area.

Thanks,

Jon

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

0oops - meant to post this in implement alley - going to repost there.

old · Mar 26, 2012

You have a picture of that area?? If you do I can then go look at the one I have and get an idea of what your looking at /needing. I still have that one out back with the broken gear and that and the tires are pretty much all that is wrong with it

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Unfortunately I don't have a great picture - I'll try to get a better one later today.

Here's what I have for now.

We hooked everything up temporarily, just to see what goes where.

You can kind of see what's happening in this pic - though it's all hidden by the frame.

The lift linkage from the left lever (red) is attached to the center of the cast eccentric (blue).

The pitch adjustment crank (unpainted, rusty bar coming in from the right) attaches to the same point on the eccentric center.

It FITS - but I don't know if it's RIGHT.

The big U shaped bracket holding the end of the rail (red) is not the original part - it's from the 3 bar parts rake (was completely missing from this one). Unfortunately, on that rake this assembly is totally different and this u-shaped bracket looks a little too wide (even the mounting holes are a good 1" to 1.5" too far apart on the bracket. But that's another whole issue I don't want to get into just yet.

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

while you're at it... you wouldn't happen to have any of that chain would you?

The 4bar didn't have the chain - the 3 bar did - however, turns out the little gear on the 3 bar is smaller than the one on the 4bar - I guess so it could spin faster (maybe because it was horse drawn?)

So the chain I took from the three bar to put on this one is short by about 3 or 4 links.

Just another stumbling block - we're SO close yet so far...

Also, the reason the crank rod isn't painted yet is because the crank handle is frozen to the threaded rod... we MAY be looking for a new one since it's refusing to loosen (I already cracked it a bit trying to dislodge it...)

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

This is a picture of what I'm calling the inner raceway of the eccentric - meant to upload it with the original post. (which I meant to post in implement alley!)

old · Mar 26, 2012

I'll try to get out there in a little while and get a picture of 2 but my picture will be not so good since I use a cheap $15 camera but it may get you in the ball park. To bad your not closer to me you could buy this thing form me for scrap price LOL

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Ball park is all I need - it's just the attaching point for the lift - and the crank screw.

I'm thinking they both hook up to the same spot.

wish I could take that rake off your hands! The parts rake I have now has been invaluable - until now. But this area is just way too different between the two rakes.

Jim Becker · Mar 26, 2012

When I first looked at your picture, I thought you were missing a big cast bushing that goes into the U-shaped bracket and the lifting linkkage should hook to. Then I realized that is probably one of the differences between the 3-bar and 4-bar rakes. I think the eccentic of the 4-bar rake is also the bushing, so the lifting linkage and eccentric adjusting crank linkage bolt to the same place on the eccentric.

From a picture I have, it looks like the eccentric should have a spacer, then the crank linkage, then the lifting linkage. I'm not sure about the spacer, which may be cast into the eccentric itself. Do whatever it takes to get the linkage all in line without binding.

It appears your real problem at this point is the lack of the right U-shaped bracket. The bushing end of the eccentric should be a reasonably close fit in the bracket, to prevent front-back motion of the reel shaft. Maybe old has the proper bracket on his parts machine. If all else fails, you could probably fabricate a round spacer that could take up the extra space.

o · Mar 26, 2012

Don't know if these will help or not but at least you can say I tried

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Thanks Jim - you are correct. The whole eccentric area is very different on the three bar.

On the three bar, there is a separate bushing with a groove that slides up and down in that U brakcet, and it also includes a tang that works sort of like the lift linkage on the 4 bar.

On the 4 bar - it appears there's no such bushing.

It's just the eccentric hub - a space - the U bracket - a large flat washer - then the sproket (washer and sprocket on the outside of the U bracket).

If you look at the picture of just the inner race of my eccentric (on the milk crate) you can see the previous owner welded something to the face fo the bearing hub on the eccentric.

Where the main shaft ran through the U bracket, it's WELL worn - like 1/4" deep groove all around it. I assume that weld job on the eccentric was some kind of attempt to protect the shaft - adding material that would ride against the U bracket instead of the shaft itself.

Since that welded area is mangled, and the U bracket isn't with the rake - we've had a lot of trouble just figuring out what's SUPPOSED to be there.

It was after inspecting the 3 bar that really got me thinking there HAS to be a part I'm missing.

But the more I dig - the more it seams there is nothing missing. (besides the U bracket).

If I can't find a good one, I'm considering cutting an inch or so out of the one on there now moving the two sides closer, and welding.

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Old - thanks!

It definitely helps. But it's still not perfectly clear - I THINK I see what I'm looking for, but just can't be sure.

I've put some notes on one copy of your picture I'll post back here.

I just need to know that the screw rod and the lift linkage both mount to the same spot - the center of the eccentric.

I THINK I'm seeing that here... but just a bit of uncertainty now.

I really wish you were closer -
Where are you again? was it north carolina?

Jim Becker · Mar 26, 2012

I'm thinking that the eccentric should effectively be the bearing for the reel shaft. The stepped down part of the eccentric (where the welding was done) should be the part that rides in the u-shaped bracket. Seems like there should be enough washers/spacers or something to use up any open space on the reel shaft so the u-shaped bracket can't fall into a gap between the sprocket and the eccentric. You mention (but I don't see in the pictures) a large washer. Additional washers between it and the sprocket or on the other side of the eccentric should close any gap between the eccentric and the large washer. This should keep the reel shaft from running directly on the u-shaped bracket.

Jim Becker · Mar 26, 2012

Maybe this will help.

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Yes I think you're right. I just found it odd that the three bar had that grooved bushing and the 4 bar would have nothing like it.

I had put that big washer back where I found it originally - on the wrong side of the eccentric. That's why it's not in the picture. I still have to pull that apart to retrieve it.

I'm thinking I can turn a simple collar to put on the shaft between the eccentric and the sprocket a little bit smaller in diameter than both. Shouldn't be a big deal.

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Damn - THAT is EXACTLY what I needed!!!

Where the heck did you find that?? I've searched everywhere (or so I thought)

THANK YOU.

JRSutton · Mar 26, 2012

Old - disregard that request - Jim found a picture that answers the question perfectly.

It's what I thought from your pictures.

Can't thank you enough for your help.

Jim Becker · Mar 26, 2012

Where the heck did you find that??

It is in the Training Course, Serviceman's Guide for Hay Machines from 1942. It has 10 pages on the side delivery rakes. You probably have learned (figured out) nearly everything in it.

There is a reprint on eBay, item 330653854461.

Leroy · Mar 26, 2012

That stepdown on the bearing is what I said wears off on the front side and will break the chain. Looks like you have it figured out. I have been wating for Old to come up with a price on the parts we were talking about. Think I will have to email him again.

old · Mar 26, 2012

By the way I am in one of misery's greatest known tourist spots or as you would know it Missouri's as in the Lake of the Ozarks

JRSutton · Mar 27, 2012

Oh, even further than I thought!

Too bad.

As crazy as it sounds, I'd normallly enjoy a good little adventure of driving a ridiculous distance to pick up something like your rake.

Especially to somewhere I've never been like missouri.

But these days with gas prices so high, I'm afraid those long trips are a thing of the past.

JRSutton · Mar 27, 2012

I probably have - but would still like to get it.

Thanks again.

old · Mar 27, 2012

Yep now days the long trip thing is sort of like what it was back when a guy had a horse and buggy. If you want to go some place back then you packed for a month. Now with fuel like it is you have to work for a year and save every penny so you can buy gas to get there and hopefully back

old · Mar 27, 2012

Yep now days the long trip thing is sort of like what it was back when a guy had a horse and buggy. If you want to go some place back then you packed for a month. Now with fuel like it is you have to work for a year and save every penny so you can buy gas to get there and hopefully back

JRSutton · Mar 27, 2012

exactly.

Leroy - I need rake help!

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