Casting dates -vs- assembly date

Yooper Farmall · Mar 6, 2012

I know no one is going to have an exact answer, but I'm curious if someone has done research and might be able to venture a ball park guess. I am a history buff and while restoring my '41 H I find myself thinking back to what the tractors life was like back in 1941. Pear Harbor happened December 7th, 1941. When I first looked at the serial number and looked up how many tractors were made that year, I estimated mine was made late in 1941. I see the iron that houses the belly pump was cast on 7/3/41, the front rims were cast 11/12/41. I was thinking maybe the tractor was assemblyed just before Pearl Harbor. Last night I finished wiring brushing the last rear wheel, it was cast 11/20/41. How long might have parts typcially sit around between casting and assembly?

davediehl@hotmail.com · Mar 6, 2012

I researched my 49 H on the Wisconsin Historical Society site the someone posted here a while back. My engine was cast on 1-6-S (49) and the rest of the tractor was cast in early February. The date code on the mid section of the tractor was for Valentine's Day 1949. The document on the website showed that it shipped the same day. Back when these were being built, I'd be willing to say that they went out the door about as fast as they were built.

jbp · Mar 6, 2012

While working for IH in the 60s, they had motor blocks stacked out side like stacks of wood. It was the thinking that cast iron in aging would twist and warp like wood to a certain degree. Better to have it warp before machining than after. They were dipped in that red primer before they left the foundry to prevent rusting while stacked outside in the weather.
Joe

gene bender · Mar 6, 2012

The 47 B Dad bought castings are 7+23+Q a couple places some older but the tractor was delivered less than a month later in Iowa was made in Louisville serial#218+++ and engine and seat do not match.

mike1972chev · Mar 6, 2012

I would bet money that even though a casting date was said for example,to BE Febuary,it could have been ACTUALLY cast a feww weeks before in January????

Here in our production facility, we are stamping trucks that are ACTUALLY manufactured (IN REAL TIME!!!!) In March,RIGHT NOW!!! with both Febuary,March,AND Aprill moths,days and years on them!!!! I dont think that casting code thing is an EXACT science when trying to ACTUALLY date parts and tractors?????

agpilot · Mar 6, 2012

Yooper: Back almost 10 years ago when I bought my 1948 Farmall C, I searched for the Casting dates on all large cast parts. Most were cast during the Summer and Fall of 1947 with just one item in early 1948. AS I understood, at that time the Farmall B production was stopped about March of 1948 and the replacement Farmall C was started. My serial number shows mine is about the 550th C built. Knowing from my uncle working there, they had 6 work days a week and assuming a steady run untill the 1949s were started, I'd guess mine was built the second week of production with castings that were made many months before. I am sure also from older relitives that much of the heavy iron parts and completed tractors were shipper by railroad system. No interstates highways and 75mph trucks back then. I imagine things changed fairly fast years after WW-2. The go-go 1960s and better highways in the '70s etc. Just in time production methods later on in 80s-90s.. etc.. Late 1940s had the WW-2 mind set yet to stock pile it. Hope this helps you a little..

Mark Peters · Mar 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 12:01:16 03/06/12) I would bet money that even though a casting date was said for example,to BE Febuary,it could have been ACTUALLY cast a feww weeks before in January????

Here in our production facility, we are stamping trucks that are ACTUALLY manufactured (IN REAL TIME!!!!) In March,RIGHT NOW!!! with both Febuary,March,AND Aprill moths,days and years on them!!!! I dont think that casting code thing is an EXACT science when trying to ACTUALLY date parts and tractors?????

Sorry , I have to disagree with you on the casting code theory,Mike. I`m a patternmaker at Brillion Iron Works up here in WI and I can tell you the dates cast ARE the dates they were poured. It`s a quality assurance thing. Records are kept of the metalurgical tests from every day and every shift. That way if there is a failure in the casting , they can go back in the records and see at what temps castings were poured and what exact alloys were added. Some foundries even have what look like little clocks on patterns that they moved the hands every hour so they know what time on that day they were poured. Other foundries will have a D or N with a pointer pointing at one of them on the pattern for day or night shift. I would be shocked if IH was any different back then in their foundries.

Ellis Kinney · Mar 6, 2012

I have been told that castings need to cure for a period of time before installation. Cummins cures their engine blocks for 1 year (I think) before machining. Ellis

Farmallhal · Mar 6, 2012

I have an original 1951 Farmall M which was factory complete the first half of April 1951. I haven't looked at the casting dates recently but having answered this type of thread in the past I believe I am recalling my data correctly. The engine block has an early October date with a T casting code. The rest of the tractor was all cast in January, February and early March with these parts having both X and W casting codes which indicates 1951. This was a family tractor delivered in Iowa and I purchased it while still on the same farm from the son of the original purchaser, Hal.

screwstick · Mar 6, 2012

I have been told that castings need to cure for a period of time before installation. Cummins cures their engine blocks for 1 year (I think) before machining. Ellis

While I don't doubt that may be the practice of today, it was certainly not the case 50-60 years ago when these tractors were rolling off the line. Although I certainly wasn't there to watch the parts come from the foundry to the machine shop to the assembly line, there is data to show that they were used as soon as they possibly could bolt them together, as soon as 2-3 weeks in some cases that I have seen. I've also seen in the same production line that used parts very quickly, it also take over a year before a part was used. (all this in the early production of the Cub)

Edit to add "quote"

CenTex Farmall · Mar 6, 2012

I have wondered the same things. I have a "41 M that has almost all november 41 casting dates with one or two from october. SN divided by 12 would put assembly in late november or early december. You wonder if it was bought before or after our world changed dramatically.

PaulGinMn · Mar 6, 2012

I have one of the fist 50 M's made and it has casting codes of 7-10-I and from the wisconsin historical arcives it shows the first M was July 15 and by Aug 1 they were to 553 so I would say my casting didnt sit more then a couple of weeks

gene bender · Mar 6, 2012

August 47 was when the last Bs were built as the C was on display in August of 47 at state fair in Des Moines IA

screwstick · Mar 6, 2012

August 47 was when the last Bs were built as the C was on display in August of 47 at state fair in Des Moines IA

According to the WHS archives, the last A's and B's rolled off the line on Dec 15, 1947 with SN 220829. The Super A's began on Dec 22, 1947 at SN 250001 and the C's not until Jan 20 1948 with SN 501.

CNKS · Mar 6, 2012

The casting codes are cast into the metal, therefore they have to be the actual day the piece was cast. The casting codes were not stamped, only the serial number.

mike1972chev · Mar 7, 2012

I learned something new today. Didnt think it was THAT accurate???

Probably a MORE accurate statement would be to say these castings,ALL of them (engine blocks,rear end housings,ect) were probably sitting around the plant in different quantitys and not all of them being used at the same time??? For instance,a block maybee would sit for 2 weeks longer than the rear axle part would before it was used.Therefore these dates wouldnt nesesarily be the same on the tractor as the end result??

Now that does happen alot where I work at!

Casting dates -vs- assembly date

Yooper Farmall

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jbp

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gene bender

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mike1972chev

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agpilot

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Mark Peters

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Ellis Kinney

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Farmallhal

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screwstick

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CenTex Farmall

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gene bender

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screwstick

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CNKS

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