Plumb my auxiliary valve

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

My 1953 Super M Stage II has a aftermarket hydraulic system on it currently. I enclosed a photo of my tractor, sorry not a good photo. I want to install the correct auxiliary control valve. Looking at Messick's website I need mounting part 358470R1 & 358471R1. I know these parts aren't no longer available, how do I go about mounting the pipe.

Wardner · Feb 5, 2012

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I didn't bother looking up the numbers but all you need are a couple of plumbing fittings and a small strap at the top.

The second picture uses a integral union and elbow but it is not necessary even though it is more convenient. It is not available at Home Depot but should be found at a good plumbing jobber.

couv · Feb 5, 2012

with the pressures involved here, cast iron fittigs are ok ? or use steel or brass ?

Wardner · Feb 5, 2012

Those fittings are return flow. Anyway, what's good enough for IH is good enough for me.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

Will the pipe thread into the housing or do I need to use a tap to cut thrads?

Wardner · Feb 5, 2012

You remove the threaded fill pipe, or maybe just the threaded fill cap, and start from there. No tapping involved.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:55:13 02/05/12) You remove the threaded fill pipe, or maybe just the threaded fill cap, and start from there. No tapping involved.

Currently there is one of these plugs in the housing.

D Slater · Feb 5, 2012

You can make or have made something like the original. One way is take the end of a one inch bolt with a nut. leave threads about 1/2 inch above nut, slide 1-1/8 long 1 inch pipe with threads on end away from nut. Weld or braze bolt to pipe down inside good enough to not leak. Cut lower end to length and weld a 1/2 inch bolt with threads down to that. Not room in there for a big nut if one inch all thread was used. Cut 1-1/2 inch pipe on a angle to fit inside of the housing. Use a big washer on pipe and use the 1/2 threads to tighten down. Removed one that they just stuck a pipe down through housing with a pluged collar on the end and stacked washers between housing and collar. Didn't sit straight though. Picture of original parts included.

mkirsch · Feb 5, 2012

Oh never mind, I just realized that Wardner's pictures are of an Stage II or SMTA with the reservoir under the gas tank.

Wardner · Feb 5, 2012

I'm sorry, I have given you some wrong info here. Guess I was assuming you had a transmission driven lift-all.

The parts you referenced will have to be made or salvaged off another distributer driven Stage Two SM.

It appears that you may need the mount that uses the eccentric washer whereas my tractors don't as they are later. I am not familiar with that washer but I think I could fabricate one after looking at the parts diagram and the tractor. The stud with the pipe thread should also be easy to make but it depends on what tools you have available.

D Slater · Feb 5, 2012

Piece I show in the picture mounts in the hole in housing and the valve screws to the threads. Suction and discharge lines are a tee in to valve and pass on back to the reservoir. When one unit is locked back for pressure the other works and vice versa.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

I'm starting to wonder if mine's a Stage II? Serial # 41117J. Did IH make any Stage II without the auxiliary valve with the plug in the housing? Those two parts are # 358470R1 & 358471R1.

D Slater · Feb 5, 2012

Yes its a stage 2. Remote control valve was a attachment. All tractors didn't have it. I put the 2 part numbers in a picture for mounting fittings on the housing for a stage 2 with engine driven pump. Part with threads goes up, lower side goes in the hole and the wedge and bolt are used inside the housing to retain it. Valve fittings go on the threaded end.
Operators manual for a stage 2 should have a picture of hookups outside housing and how it operates.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

(quoted from post at 23:00:48 02/05/12) Yes its a stage 2. Remote control valve was a attachment. All tractors didn't have it. I put the 2 part numbers in a picture for mounting fittings on the housing for a stage 2 with engine driven pump. Part with threads goes up, lower side goes in the hole and the wedge and bolt are used inside the housing to retain it. Valve fittings go on the threaded end.
Operators manual for a stage 2 should have a picture of hookups outside housing and how it operates.

The two parts you posted in the photo is what I need. Try to find these is like a needle in a haystack.

sflem849 · Feb 5, 2012

(quoted from post at 12:51:33 02/05/12) I'm starting to wonder if mine's a Stage II? Serial # 41117J. Did IH make any Stage II without the auxiliary valve with the plug in the housing? Those two parts are # 358470R1 & 358471R1.

The picture you posted in this thread is a Stage II. The one you posted in a different thread (here or RPM, I don't remember) was not.

Slater is dead on, they didn't all come with two way hyd.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

The two mounting parts I need can anyone tell if I could track these down in a salvage yard or does anyone have any extra lying around to sell?

mike1972chev · Feb 5, 2012

DSlater gave you the best photo of what you need,but are hard to get.

Super MTA mount is TOTALLY different than what you need.Super M TA bolts to the housing with 3 bolts.Super M is on that special "stud" with 1" pipe on one end and bolts ito the housing with a special wedge washer.You can make one.

If you do weld one up,make sure the already sealed pressure side of what you are doing is what you are welding the trans mount to. DO NOT set a 1" pipe on top of a 1" bolt and weld it to it expecting it to hold pressure.You could get hurt !!!!

mike1972chev · Feb 5, 2012

Here is mine. Zoom in.

W.Brehm · Feb 5, 2012

(quoted from post at 00:50:40 02/06/12) DSlater gave you the best photo of what you need,but are hard to get.

Super MTA mount is TOTALLY different than what you need.Super M TA bolts to the housing with 3 bolts.Super M is on that special "stud" with 1" pipe on one end and bolts ito the housing with a special wedge washer.You can make one.

If you do weld one up,make sure the already sealed pressure side of what you are doing is what you are welding the trans mount to. DO NOT set a 1" pipe on top of a 1" bolt and weld it to it expecting it to hold pressure.You could get hurt !!!!

I'll try to track one down in a salvage yard, eBay,etc.. Not really big on fabricating one and the chance it would fail.

D Slater · Feb 5, 2012

Mike may not be the best way but I had a one inch nut the same size as the original hex so it looks original. Don't consider myself that great of a welder but if I slide a non plated 1 inch bolt inside 1 inch black pipe and weld it its going to hold for that. There's only suction or return pressure on that fitting. Plenty of other ways to make a mount though.

mike1972chev · Feb 5, 2012

I agree DSlater,

I wasnt thinking about the bottom side of the valve.It is all pump suction and oil return from 2 way valve on that side. My original answer wasnt that good.

W.Brehm · Feb 6, 2012

Thanks for the help. I'll try to find these parts in a salvage yard. If anyone on here knows where some extras lying around or have parts for sale let me know. Again thank you.

mike1972chev · Feb 6, 2012

Yea, Mine did not come with the 2 way valve.I added it. Mine is a Lousiville Stage 2 live hydrauics and DID NOT come with the 2 way valve in the photo.Most 1953 Stage 2 Supers I have seen do not have it either.(NOT saying some of them DID come with it.

mkirsch · Feb 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 04:19:41 02/06/12) Thanks for the help. I'll try to find these parts in a salvage yard. If anyone on here knows where some extras lying around or have parts for sale let me know. Again thank you.

Oh yeah, there's like a dozen of those on a shelf at Walmart...

You're in for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG wait if you hold out for original parts. There aren't that many Stage II Super M's around, and more of them came withOUT the 2-way valve than did, obviously, or yours would have one.

If you want to get this done before you die of old age, you may want to reconsider fabrication, or having a friend with a welder make something up for you.

W.Brehm · Feb 6, 2012

I have on a lead on the parts. Salvage yard in Iowa.

mkirsch · Feb 6, 2012

Hey that's great, pick up a few lottery tickets on your way home if the salvage yard turns out to actually have the parts.

W.Brehm · Feb 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 15:08:06 02/06/12) Hey that's great, pick up a few lottery tickets on your way home if the salvage yard turns out to actually have the parts.

If you can't help me with my question, I prefer you keep your smart a$$ remarks to yourself.

sflem849 · Feb 6, 2012

Anybody have a picture of the SMTA one? Someday I would like to do that...

(quoted from post at 07:19:54 02/06/12)

(quoted from post at 15:08:06 02/06/12) Hey that's great, pick up a few lottery tickets on your way home if the salvage yard turns out to actually have the parts.

Click to expand...

If you can't help me with my question, I prefer you keep your smart a$$ remarks to yourself.

BTW, he was saying you are super lucky to make a few phone calls and find one within an hour (because as I write this it is 8:44 CST and no junkyard would be open much before 8:00 CST) You really don't get it... I hope it was that Jim Johnson joker that says he has it and then never comes up with it. He was also going to ship me a metal seal retainer for my MD...

W.Brehm · Feb 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 15:39:47 02/06/12) Anybody have a picture of the SMTA one? Someday I would like to do that...

(quoted from post at 07:19:54 02/06/12)

(quoted from post at 15:08:06 02/06/12) Hey that's great, pick up a few lottery tickets on your way home if the salvage yard turns out to actually have the parts.

Click to expand...

If you can't help me with my question, I prefer you keep your smart a$$ remarks to yourself.

Click to expand...

BTW, he was saying you are super lucky to make a few phone calls and find one within an hour (because as I write this it is 8:44 CST and no junkyard would be open much before 8:00 CST) You really don't get it... I hope it was that Jim Johnson joker that says he has it and then never comes up with it. He was also going to ship me a metal seal retainer for my MD...

I called three yards within a hour of me. They told me that they'll let me no matter what. If by luck that all three yards would have these parts I'll take all three. I'll keep ya posted.

sflem849 · Feb 7, 2012

What did you learn?

W.Brehm · Feb 7, 2012

(quoted from post at 16:20:12 02/07/12) What did you learn?

Jim Bowie Equipment, Tipton IA has a Stage II Super M but he won't sell a part off it, it's missing parts like drawbar, and small parts. But it does have what I need. He would sell the whole tractor, but I'm leary because it's very rusty and the auxiliary valve is froze solid from rust. Didn't ask what he wants for the whole tractor.

Mike Franzen, Monmouth, IA told me to give a couple of days and he'll let me know what he comes up with. And last Jerry Everett, Strawberry Point Iowa closed until March 1st, but I did email him but no reponse yet.

sflem849 · Feb 7, 2012

(quoted from post at 12:20:18 02/07/12)

(quoted from post at 16:20:12 02/07/12) What did you learn?

Click to expand...

Jim Bowie Equipment, Tipton IA has a Stage II Super M but he won't sell a part off it, it's missing parts like drawbar, and small parts. But it does have what I need. He would sell the whole tractor, but I'm leary because it's very rusty and the auxiliary valve is froze solid from rust. Didn't ask what he wants for the whole tractor.

Mike Franzen, Monmouth, IA told me to give a couple of days and he'll let me know what he comes up with. And last Jerry Everett, Strawberry Point Iowa closed until March 1st, but I did email him but no reponse yet.

I have had better luck using the eBay messanger thing to get ahold of Jerry during the off season. His kid will let you in there in the winter if he has time. (at least that is what Jerry said a few years ago)

Did you try Jim Johnson in Miles, IA? I had a tough time dealing with him on the phone. My neighbor wants me to take him there to check out his yard someday.

Is Bowie Equipment sure it has the part you need or just a 2 way valve? Might be a good question to ask because a lot of setups were homemade.

When I go to Miles, IA how many sets of wheel weights do you want? They are $125 per set.

W.Brehm · Feb 7, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:09:53 02/07/12)

(quoted from post at 12:20:18 02/07/12)

(quoted from post at 16:20:12 02/07/12) What did you learn?

Click to expand...

Jim Bowie Equipment, Tipton IA has a Stage II Super M but he won't sell a part off it, it's missing parts like drawbar, and small parts. But it does have what I need. He would sell the whole tractor, but I'm leary because it's very rusty and the auxiliary valve is froze solid from rust. Didn't ask what he wants for the whole tractor.

Mike Franzen, Monmouth, IA told me to give a couple of days and he'll let me know what he comes up with. And last Jerry Everett, Strawberry Point Iowa closed until March 1st, but I did email him but no reponse yet.

Click to expand...

I have had better luck using the eBay messanger thing to get ahold of Jerry during the off season. His kid will let you in there in the winter if he has time. (at least that is what Jerry said a few years ago)

Did you try Jim Johnson in Miles, IA? I had a tough time dealing with him on the phone. My neighbor wants me to take him there to check out his yard someday.

Is Bowie Equipment sure it has the part you need or just a 2 way valve? Might be a good question to ask because a lot of setups were homemade.

When I go to Miles, IA how many sets of wheel weights do you want? They are $125 per set.

Bowie Equipment has the parts I need. Last July I stopped in and looked at that tractor, Jim was on vacation at the time. That tractor has the complete auxiliary valve with plumbing still on the tractor.

I have enough weights.

Plumb my auxiliary valve

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