finally started burning rods on the C 3pt

I got 90% of the pieces cut the other day, and clamped together.

actually burned some rods today, and then did a rough fit test to make sure I hadn't screwed up on geometry.

Mind you the welds have not even been chipped or torch marks dressed. wanted to see if she fit up ok, before I did ANY dress work.. wouldn't want to have to torch it apart after dressing it out.. etc..

that said.. it fits good.

added the toplink connection point.

have the rod for the rockshaft ready to cut.

made the links that go from the forward hyd arms to the rockshaft.

have cut out 2 L shaped brackets for the rockshaft, will expirement with various attach points beofre making the holes and welding the plates to the rockshaft.

will have to fabricate some 'clevi' for the lft links ( also rebar ) that go to the 2 salvage 8n lower arms. ( mounted to the lower drawbar bracket.

preliminary measurements and some creative 'eye' work and a lil imagination tells me it 'should' work

we'll see about that wednesday night i guess..

soundguy

I hate to dampen your spirits, but the only thing that makes sense to me is the Ford lift links. I like building stuff that looks like it was factory designed. That generally means using and modifying factory parts and not cutting 2x2x1/4 angle iron, 3/4" pipe, and rebar. I probably should emphasize REBAR. Some of that stuff is very low grade.

There is alot of SC lift parts on eBay. But those hitch parts could just as well come from any tractor. The only drawback to that strategy is it takes awhile to collect the parts. A trip to the local salvage yard could speed that up but Northern Florida may be like New England in so far as finding a good yard.

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Re-bar steel can't be depended on for strength as all kinds of steel is thrown into the pot to make the re-bars. You could have a mix of high-carbon, low-carbon, and alloys all within a 10 to 20 ft. length. There is a discussion about this on the I Forge Iron forun ( a forun for Blacksmiths and other ironworkers). There is a lot better steel aviable and more dependable than re-bar for what you want to do. Try cutting re-bar with a chopsaw or hacksaw and you will see what i am talking about. I would spend the money for the proper steel for what you are trying to build. Also talk to your local welder for more adivce before something breaks and does damage. Armand

Looks like Wardner posted a few minutes ahead of me. Follow his ideas and you will have a safe and dependable hitch that you can be proud of for years to come.. As he says the parts are aviable off the shelf. Armand

You need to throw the light re-bar and angle away and get the proper material. Accident waiting to happen with all the light metal.

I used heavier metal than that on a homemade hitch for my lawnmower.

You be darn careful with that. You do not have a lot of tractor there. That front end will dance like a fool....

I'm all for making-do with what you have, but I'm in agreement with everyone else here on the fact that you don't have nearly heavy enough material there in your design. The angles should be twice as thick at least. The pipe should be solid shaft. The rebar should be buried in concrete.

(quoted from post at 00:01:19 01/24/12) I used heavier metal than that on a homemade hitch for my lawnmower.

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:lol:

(quoted from post at 06:14:39 01/24/12) I'm all for making-do with what you have, but I'm in agreement with everyone else here on the fact that you don't have nearly heavy enough material there in your design. The angles should be twice as thick at least. The pipe should be solid shaft. The rebar should be buried in concrete.

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:lol: :lol:

Pretty much the same thing as everyone else, not nearly heavy enough. Your rockshaft is going to be entirely too small. washers welded to the rebar isn't that smart either. I assume the piece that looks like an L goes on the end of the rockshaft, if that is so it will bend. The touch control is fairly strong and you have to remember those 3 point arms are adding probably double the force to some of these joints due to leverage. The way your headed I doubt it lift a 5 foot brush hog, if it does it will collapse first bump you hit.

That C is more tractor than you think it is. Beef it all up.

appreciate all the comments, thanks.

don't look for any more updates.

soundguy

No more updates? Hummmm Armand

I see your taking the critiquing well. Why don't you listen to everyone and save yourself building this thing twice. We all had to start somewhere. Heck they built commercially a system like you want. Atleast try to find one or photos so you can try to duplicate material sizes. go to google images and search "farmall 200 3 point hitch" Most of the first 2 rows of photos are what you are building, now look at the material size differences.

I'm taking the critique quite well. I thanked all for their comments, told me *exactly* what I needed to know.

As for saving myself from building it twice, I'm pro-actively going a step ahead and saving myself from building it once by eliminating the need ( want? ) for it.

thanks for the insite.(no sarcasm) I , as stated in a previous message, was going for a light duty 3pt lift, and also as stated in another post, wanted to work out the proof of concept before going any further. however this feedback was quite revealing. I had -no- idea what I was getting into. for sure will save me some money now, if not especially, in the long run.

soundguy

Ok, well I figured you were ------ because everyone rained on your parade, which like it or not had to happen.

Soundguy - looks like an interesting project.

I'll agree with what others have said about the quality of today's rebar - it's not at all what it used to be.

Used to be you could build your very own eifel tower out of the stuff (not sure why you would.. but you could), now your lucky if a weld holds 30 lbs.

But not the kind of news that makes headlines, no fault of yours for not knowing that.

as for the other parts, really depends on what you're going to use it for.

I'd agree hanging a 6 foot mower off it might be a little optimistic, but it'd probably be fine for smaller, lighter implements.

There were certainly some good comments here about making it stronger, but if you're just dragging a york rake or some other item that doesn't really present any danger if it should fail - then I say continue onward with your plan.

It's easy to argue to go heavier when you're not paying the bills. Metal stock has become prohibitively expensive.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've designed this thing to fit YOUR needs - and not all the POSSIBLE needs we can all come up with.

Keep the pictures coming - they keep this site interesting.

If you finish it and it fails, there's knowledge for all of us to be gained on where and how it goes wrong.

Same thing if it works well.

I built it more or less specifically to pull a 1 row spring tooth cultivator, though did forsee wanting to put a ball on a 3pt drawbar to make it a powered trailer tender.. ie.. back up.. lift trailer tounge off ground and then move it.. etc.

I have plenty of other tractors for heavy work or ground engagement, or load lifting. I started out wanting to make this light duty, and for sure designed it that way when I put the engineering calcs on the paper based ont he geometry. ( putting that engineering degree to some use.. ) All calcs were based on mild steel.. which is what I used for the rebar as well, only considering root diameter, not the raised diameter. The scrap rebar I'm using ( liberated from work ) stated it was 'weldable'.. though did not list a grade. I'm makeing a few assumptions based on shear, yeild, tensile and compressive strength. the doubled up hard washers I welded back to back and notched for the rebar are a 'fit' test. i actually have clevis ends for them, were I to finish this project, which I do not currently believe I will.
as to the rebar quality levels.. I guess that one is a cr@p shoot. I have no way to grade it, nor do I think a yeild test will be practicle to mock up due to cost vs what I learn from observation. i do have a porta power and could frame up a tensile test, but have a feeling that i'll have a yeilding of a weld joint at a conenction as a first failure before i stretched any bar apart... again.. a guess.. as you point out.. it may have a slag include or void or something that made the bar yeild at a few pounds.. I agree.. that could for sure happen.

As for price.. All items of bulk metal are cut ends and or scrap liberated from work. i had an odd assortment of 1.4 and 2" angle irons to work with 1/4".. along with some 1/4, 1/8 and 1/2" bar stock.. plus iron pipe and a piece of cold roled. ( also liberated some decent expanded metal for use on another project! )

not/bolt assortment cam from bags of stuff I had from other projects.

So far I guess I have a pound of 1/8 welding rod in her, plus the electricity for said pount, plus a few cents of abrasive blade on the chop saw and some incalculable and negligible amount of O/A gas used.

twas all scrap.. so.. I've wasted about 5$ worth of rod and zaputrons used to make them smaller.

bolts I can re-use. etc.

as before, thanks for the insite and comments.

I think I'll probably still be directing my limited funds and energies in a different direction however.

soundguy

Can't say that I blame you, and you did take it well, as I saw this unfolding. Maybe I was the only one looking forward to seeing the results. I know the 'heavy factory made' 3 point I spent (should say wasted) my hard earned money on was useless, so I wanted to see another option. Not sure how it would have turned out, but no doubt it would have worked better than they one I had.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? It's how you learn.

Unfortunately, your "light duty" 3pt would've ended up being a "no duty" 3pt hitch with the materials you were using.

Well, Armard, I don't know where you got your Engineering Degree, but you are totally wrong on rebar "being thrown together with different grades of iron". All rebar made in the USA is made to ACI Standards. If above #5 size, it is 60,000psi steel. Which means, it should never be used in conjunction with light-grade angle iron, which is, at best, 30,000psi. Rebar cannot be "properly" welded unless it is heated to the proper degree of heat prior to welding and to the proper degree of heat after welding. Anyone can weld rebar, but without using the ACI methods it sometimes holds and sometimes it like crystal candy - brittle. Don't use rebar for what it's not intended to use - for reinforcing concrete.

Well, Armard, I don't know where you got your Engineering Degree, but you are totally wrong on rebar "being thrown together with different grades of iron". All rebar made in the USA is made to ACI Standards. If above #5 size, it is 60,000psi steel. Which means, it should never be used in conjunction with light-grade angle iron, which is, at best, 30,000psi. Rebar cannot be "properly" welded unless it is heated to the proper degree of heat prior to welding and to the proper degree of heat after welding. A good welder can weld rebar, but without using the ACI methods it sometimes holds and sometimes it comes out like crystal candy - brittle. Don't use rebar for what it's not intended to be used for - for reinforcing concrete.

paper disagrees with you.. but it's a moot point.

soundguy

i've yet to find anything resembling a tractor bone yard here in my area of florida. .. unfortunately.

soundguy

Soundguy, I think what you need to find is a fellow selling a set of cultivators for a little over scrap price and you'll have the heavier duty rockshaft that you'll need. It will run off the lifts on the side by the fuel tank, I don't know if that's what you were avoiding or not. With the cultivator rockshaft, all you'd need is some lift links- probably fabricateable from some 1" or 1 1/4" steel bar stock. Just a thought on how I would do what you're doing. -Andy

Duh, If I would have read a little closer to your original post, I would have seen that you intend to use the cultivator lift hydraulics. Those rods from the hydraulics to the rockshaft are once again only about 1" in diameter on the original parts. I believe a person could substitute in larger (like 2") schedule 80 pipe and get the needed strength. I will say that from what I see, you really aren't that far off, you just need a rockshaft and the L pieces that are about twice as heavy as what you've got going on. It's not like you're trying to pick up a 3 bottom plow with it. -Andy

unfortunately, the responses below pretty much soured the entire idea for the project,and after thought, the tractor(s)themselves.

if all goes as planned, they'l be unloaded soon, perhaps by the weekend.

soundguy

Well, try not to take it too personally. I ask this question: have you ever got to see the original mounted equipment for the C's and A's and such? If not, then it is totally understandable on how you wound up where you're at with the project. I may add, I know you've got a pretty H, but I think you might miss that C if you sell it. Those are the handiest tractors there ever was.

I'm just really not interested in owning a machine ( tying up money that could go to other projects.. not to mention space ) that will have questionable support if needed.

soundguy

Being a welder for 30+ years I'm used to seeing engineers work modified in order for it to work.
Keep on working at building something strong enough to work and safe.

I was more interested in proof of concept and getting the length and angles correct using free materials before sinking any real time or money into it.. have unfortunately, lost interest..

if I keep the C.. I might still fab it up to see if it moves correctly.. and if it does, then up size the materials ..e tc.

(quoted from post at 07:33:30 01/25/12) I was more interested in proof of concept and getting the length and angles correct using free materials before sinking any real time or money into it.. have unfortunately, lost interest..

if I keep the C.. I might still fab it up to see if it moves correctly.. and if it does, then up size the materials ..e tc.

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Youshould have said that in the first place and people wouldn't get on you. They are just trying to keep you from killing somebody.

In my opinion you should NEVER build something super light duty with the intentions of only using it for light duty. You may get carried away one day and put a bushhog on it because it fits and then you will hurt yourself. Even worse if you sell it with a flimsy 3 pt and somebody gets hurt they could sue the snot out of you.

so far I've never sold anything I've built.. so not much of a chance of that happening. in the past 20 ys.. I've only sold 1-2 tractors as well.. and never sold an implement at all.

if I need something real , lifted on a 3pt.. I have 20 fords inthe barn, all with working 3pt.

I wanted to get my angles and measurements correct before i did any finish cutting or work.

cutting a pattern out of scrap 3/16 plate for test is cheap.. cutting it out of 3/8 or 1/2" scrap uses up real good scrap.

the rebar.. I'm not so concerned about. buddy has rebar lift links on a ford and moves 4x5 round hay bales with it.. has been doing so for about 3ys..

I've welded on lots of rebar.. made gate panels and such out of it. I heat it red then weld.. so far have not had one shatter from hardening, or break out a weld. not saying it can't happen.. just tha tthe rebar in that mockup is for sure not the weak link. the top rocker panels are for sure the weak link.. that and the conenction links..

I have clevis ends for those.. but then.. i mentioned that and not many noticed...