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Generator or alternator

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Anyone have any advice as to whether I should go with a gen. or alt. on my H rebuild? I have a gen. but will need to be rebuilt and it will be about the same price as an alternator and brackets. I'm not a purist; doesn't need to be original.
 
I use my 340 for short times around the yard and switched it to 12 volt w/alternator 3-4 years ago. Wouldn't go back to generator now. The alt keeps the battery up much better for these short periods.
 
Those generators served for years andyears and they will still serve. Making the bracket rewiring and then change all the bulbs is fine if you can do it and make it work new brushes and clean the commuter with maybe new bearings and it will work again. Bottom line is how much is the tractor used does it need to start everyday in cold weather and the list goes on
 
Alternator!

The single biggest issue for me was the availability of good quality 6 volt batteries. Seems like all the one I bought lasted about a year.

I have more tractors that I can use so some sit. 6v systems didn't store well for me. 12v systems can sit for months and still start.
 
The problem with generators is you will continue to fiddle with regulators, replace brushes, clean commutators, and replace bearings to keep them going. Alternators are much more reliable.

You can buy brackets to mount an alternator on an H or M. No need to fabricate. The wiring is simpler than a generator.

Just don't cut the hood!
 
Yeah, but why bother with a 6 Volt alternator?

Usually when you get to this point the battery is shot anyway.

On an H, 12V conversion on the rest of the tractor is just a matter of replacing three inexpensive bayonet-style bulbs to the tune of about $5. On the odd occasion that it doesn't have a magneto, you also need a ballast resistor which is another $10.
 
(quoted from post at 07:37:59 12/27/11) The problem with generators is you will continue to fiddle with regulators, replace brushes, clean commutators, and replace bearings to keep them going. Alternators are much more reliable.

You can buy brackets to mount an alternator on an H or M. No need to fabricate. The wiring is simpler than a generator.

Just don't cut the hood!
Click to expand...

Really? My dad bought a Farmall H brand new in 1949. Sold that H 50 years later when he retired. I spent countless hours on that H and I don't remember EVER having any problems with the charging system other than MAYBE replacing a battery 2 or 3 times.

I now own 2 Hs that get used on a regular basis. One of those Hs needed a new generator belt when I bought it 14 years ago, and hasn't given a lick of a problem since then. The other H needed a cut-out relay because a previous owner let the smoke out of it. It has not given an ounce of trouble in the last 13 years.
 
I went with the alternator on my M. It's a farm tractor not a show piece. There are several reasons I swapped out.

1. Winter starting. The 6 volt system just wasn't doing the trick when it was -20.

2. Cost. SIL fried the genny and it was more cost effective to go with the 12 volt system. The battery was getting weak at the same time.

3. I have one battery charger, big one on wheels. It too was showing it's age and I was looking at replacements. I was supprised that the new ones I was interested in in with 200-300 amp boost didn't have a setting for 6 volt, 12 only.

I live in west MN. We moved here in 71 in farm country. Every farmer I knew even back then had 6 volt starting issues when it was 20 or 30 below. I have had people on the forums tell me that they never had a starting issue with 6 volt.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 08:57:26 12/27/11) I went with the alternator on my M. It's a farm tractor not a show piece. There are several reasons I swapped out.

1. Winter starting. The 6 volt system just wasn't doing the trick when it was -20.

2. Cost. SIL fried the genny and it was more cost effective to go with the 12 volt system. The battery was getting weak at the same time.

3. I have one battery charger, big one on wheels. It too was showing it's age and I was looking at replacements. I was supprised that the new ones I was interested in in with 200-300 amp boost didn't have a setting for 6 volt, 12 only.

I live in west MN. We moved here in 71 in farm country. Every farmer I knew even back then had 6 volt starting issues when it was 20 or 30 below. I have had people on the forums tell me that they never had a starting issue with 6 volt.

Rick
Click to expand...

Personally, I have never experienced cold weather starting issues with a 6 volt system, so I see no need to do a 12 volt conversion, BUT, if any of my original 6 volt generators DO go belly up beyond a new set of brushes, a 12 volt conversion will be the least costly way to fix it.
 
My vote

If restoring = redo generator and voltage regulator.


If still WORKING the tractor and using it ALOT = 12 volt 10SI Delco alternator.And,like has already been posted: PLEASE DO NOT CUT THE HOOD FOR CLEARANCE !!!!! (Not needed,)
 
(quoted from post at 09:58:59 12/27/11) My vote

If restoring = redo generator and voltage regulator.


If still WORKING the tractor and using it ALOT = 12 volt 10SI Delco alternator.And,like has already been posted: PLEASE DO NOT CUT THE HOOD FOR CLEARANCE !!!!! (Not needed,)
Click to expand...

A delco 10si will not fit under the hood of an H. No problem on an M, but it won't fit an H.
 
I would use the Hitachi alternator number 14231 used on the 78-80 Nissan trucks. The Napa number is 2138130 and sells for $50.00. May be higher now. It's a lot smaller and should fit under the hood. Hal
PS: It has also been used by some of the people that post on here. The 12 volt batteries are also easier to find.
 
Have a SH still 6 volt that will start okay.
On a H thats used for short periods at a time I installed a hitachi altenator for a older pickup with internal regulator. Because of the qualitiy of most voltage regulators for 6 volt not good as past ones and needing a new battery. Small 12 volt will fit the battery box and start tractor easy. Made the bottom mount work and already had a top adjustable brace that worked. Purchased a small hitachi rebuilt altenator that fits under hood without a core, new 12 volt group 26 battery I think it was, bulbs and resister around 115 to 120 bucks last year. You should be able to find old posts about the hitachi altenator # and how they installed them. Works great for me and without looking up under the hood the missing voltage regulator at the rear tank support is the only give away since it is a 50. model.
 
Thanks for all input. This tractor will not see a lot of running time, just some spring plowing and shows. I have an alternator on my MD which works great - battery always stays up. Guess that's why I was thinking more alternator than generator. Thanks again.
 
(reply to post at 09:40:01 12/27/11)
Click to expand...

I'd say if you don't care about keeping it original - swapping to 12v/alt will give you more dependable service.

But - as others have said - please don't cut the hood -

and I'll add that you should put the original parts in a box and store them away. If you ever sell the tractor, the next owner will probably appreciate having the the bracket and generator, even if it does need rebuilding.
 
Someone said a Delco 10SI will not fit under the hood of an H. I've got one, and it fits real tight, with no room to spare, but it fits. I have to fit the belt on, then the top bolt, then fit the long bottom bolt, but it fits. I think the alternator does actually touch the valve cover.
 
I personally convert my tractors to 12V using the existing wiring and gen. These gens. WILL charge 12V no matter what anyone on here says. I bale hay with an "M" and "H" and both work perfectly like this with no cleaning of points or fiddling with gen. brushes. No need to fab brackets or buy extra stuff that you don't need.
If you want more info send me and E-mail address.
 
Australian Farmalls were 6 volt for kero engines and 12 volt for Diesel. All positive Earth and all Lucas generators. I'm just plain stubborn, so I have kept them that way. In any case my kero tractors are magneto ignition and if the battery is low I just wind them over on the crank. They start second or third crank every time. I work the tractors and feel that if I wanted a new machine with 12 volt and alternators I would buy something more modern, just my personal preference.
SadFarmall
 
ALTERNATOR IS THE BEST IF INSTALLED RIGHT, leave the gen and 6 VOLT systems for someone else to spend on and maintain,at best a 6 volt won't start as good a weak 12, just my opinion although i've changed a lot over in the past 40 years don't know of any that were changed back
 
Summer 2010 I bought a Super M still original 6 volt from Steel Wheel Ranch. Started with no problem if the battery was charged. That was in the summer, probably would not work too good in winter. However with a good battery and a battery maintainer it would probably be ok. Tractor is currently disassembled. I'm leaning to go to 12 volt. I have a new one wire alternator that has sat around for 13 years, may use that. I am aware of the one wire problems. But under the right conditions 6 volt is ok.
 
a good electrical shop can take an existing gen and convert it for 12V use. we did that on my dads H. all you do is install the resistor for the points, change the lights and battery and thats it. dont have to find a different belt or fiddle around with making brackets fit and finding a small enough alt
 
If you are doing a lot of start and stop stuff and you don't care about originality I would go with the alternator. I am a purist so I wouldn't, but I don't make my living on them either. The alternator should bring the battery back to full juice quicker than the gen.
 
I do not agree that generators are all that troublesome.When I restored my JD G in '87 I rebuilt the generator and installed a new regulator.I used the tractor 1000 hours.I cleaned the regulator contacts twice since the restoration, and have not put any money into them.I've had more trouble with the nippendenso alternator on my newer tractor than that.
 
I have been building alternator coversion kits for Farmall H for a number of years using the Delco 10SI alternator and it fits under the hood with the orginial length belt. It is true that you do not have much room but it fits. The hood fits and there is no need to cut the hood. www dot charliesrepair dot com I know a lot of people saw my 39 Farmall H at RPRU in Albert Lea MN this past summer. Charlie
a57333.jpg

a57334.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 09:20:18 12/27/11)
(quoted from post at 08:57:26 12/27/11) I went with the alternator on my M. It's a farm tractor not a show piece. There are several reasons I swapped out.

1. Winter starting. The 6 volt system just wasn't doing the trick when it was -20.

2. Cost. SIL fried the genny and it was more cost effective to go with the 12 volt system. The battery was getting weak at the same time.

3. I have one battery charger, big one on wheels. It too was showing it's age and I was looking at replacements. I was supprised that the new ones I was interested in in with 200-300 amp boost didn't have a setting for 6 volt, 12 only.

I live in west MN. We moved here in 71 in farm country. Every farmer I knew even back then had 6 volt starting issues when it was 20 or 30 below. I have had people on the forums tell me that they never had a starting issue with 6 volt.

Rick
Click to expand...

Personally, I have never experienced cold weather starting issues with a 6 volt system, so I see no need to do a 12 volt conversion, BUT, if any of my original 6 volt generators DO go belly up beyond a new set of brushes, a 12 volt conversion will be the least costly way to fix it.
Click to expand...


Rusty, I'm talking MN cold like -20 to -30 below.

Rick
 
CNKS

If you get the "self enhancing " voltage regulator with "LOW TURN ON"for your one wire alternator,you will have a good alternator.Otherwise,you might have to throttle it WIDE OPEN for a few seconds to get it to start charging? It WILL work,but can be annoying.

MOST one wire alternators are sold with a voltage regulators intended for higher RPM engines than our old tractors!(Hot rod cars! :)
 
If you electrical system is shot I could see a 12 volt conversion. Any of the other "reasons" are mostly pure hooey. Properly maintained 6 volt systems do not start any better than 12 volts, and generators are not any more difficult to maintain. We have a tractor on the farm right now, a '67 model, with its original voltage regulator, the generator has been replaced once. The secret to 6 volt systems is to use GOOD battery cables--at least 1/0, and make sure all connections are clean, bright and tight. The problem is a lot of people don't want to take the time to fix what is wrong with they existing system so they slop a 12 volt alternator on. After all, everyone automatically assumes that 12 is twice as many volts as 6 so it must be better!

Also, there's a special spot in hades for people that cut up tractor sheet metal to wedge an alternator in place! ;)

Al
 
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