m vibration

got this m a few years ago,it has a horrible vibration, no unusual noises and it runs great. its not trans related( doesnt stop when clutch pushed in)i pulled the pan last year and everything looked fine, pulled the plugs and looked in cylinders and found a nice looking older set of matched stepped head pistons, flywheel looks ok. could the flywheel have been unbalanced from factory, it looks like its vibrated for a while since someone has brazed cracks in the hood many years ago

the vibration gets much worse the more you throttle it up, but even at idle it shakes the front wheels

Improperly ground Flywheel, or a bent crank, or a Flywheel with a piece of trash under it making runout. Looking at it with the cover off might show some wobble. Jim

ive wondered about the possibility of a bent crank, i dropped the belly pump when i first got it thinking someone must have put the flywheel or clutch on wrong but everything looks ok and straight. i would think the flywheel would have to be way off for this thing to vibrate as bad as it does. Can you put a flywheel in a tire balancer

Unless there is a piece of the flywheel missing the problem would more likely be in the pressure plate assembly. If I didn't see anything obvious I would remove the clutch and run it to see if it changes the vibration. Before removing the clutch you may want to rotate the PPA in the flywheel either 120º or 180º to see if that helps. If necessary you can balance the PPA by putting washers on the mounting bolts where it is light.

I know if it isnt the clutch of flywheel,it is WAY SERIOUS! If they both check out,you got some real bottom end issues.

You say it has step pistons in it.Do you know when these were installed??? This wasnt an old "puller" engine was it?

In the world of engines,these are VERY low RPM.If you can feel that vibration at idle,something is WAY out of whack in the rotating assembly !!!!!! DO NOT keep running it untill it is fixed.Could be destructive?

If all else checks out, I'd pull the head & have a look at the pistons. Someone could have put an odd piston in as a band-aid fix.

I had a vibration in my H that acted the same way, but I don't remember if it shook the front wheels or not. A blade had broken off the fan. It was an easy fix.

Greg

I like the idea of removing the clutch, Suggested by Owen. Putting a dial indicator on the FW is important. Out of runout max should be less than .0015" (even that is a lot for a machined running heavy item. If a clutch spring was missing, or the PP disk off center in the housing, or the finger system bent, it could make the vibration. Jim

Does it still vibrate when you put the clutch in? If it stops ,check the drive shaft to see if the 4 bolts are really tight
Clif

I'd start with the easily accesible parts, go to the clutch, and then the engine.

Check the water pump and fan blades. Bent or loose blades or bad bearings in the pump can shake the sheet metal off a tractor. Blades could be out of balance from rubbing the shroud or something else at one time, too.

Bad PPA is a possibility. PPA not tightened properly, bent or broken finger(s), or busted springs could be the culprit. Flywheel could be loose, improperly ground, or out of balance.

All kinds of lower engine issues could cause similar vibrations, caused by anything from excessive wear to bent, loose, broken, improperly assembled or missing parts. (I found the center main cap laying in the pan of an M once, crank was bent.)

I repaired a SM for a neighbor with a similar "vibration from he**" problem. He had "just had the clutch done", but it was really more like 1500 hours before. Whoever did it put a PPA from a live pump SM into a tractor with a belly pump. It tore the front of the hyd. housing up. They bondo-ed up the housing. Then they took a grinder to the parts sticking out of the PPA to make it clear. They left the starter in when putting the tractor together and broke most of the nosecone off. They put another starter on (I'm guessing, there was a nosecone on the starter), but left the broken off nosecone piece in the tractor. It wedged itself alongside the flywheel and severly damaged the flywheel. I can't say exactly what caused his vibration, but changing everything fixed it.

AG

Fan and water pump look and feel great and the bottom end looked good, I did just notice there isn't much travel in the clutch pedal compared to my h so guess ill pull the clutch apart first

Freeplay should be 1.25" at the platform to pedal when pushing it down by hand to the point the fingers touch the T/O bearing. If that is OK, then pulling the clutch is ok. If the clearance is near none, adjust that first, the T/O bearing might be riding on the fingers, and if they are out of adjustmant, there will be some vibration. Jim

Is there a knock along with vibration?? If so, maybe a wrist pin is doing a dance number in the piston--a lot of vertical slop.
How about valve adjustment--pushrod jumped out of the socket--broken rocker arm--valve spring keeper gone, letting the valve drop down.

A vibration at idle and neutral engine run-up (tractor out of gear at idle to max RPM) which increases when as you say...." you throttle up" has to be a first order engine speed related issue and MOST likely due to the flywheel out of balance or the clutch-pressure plate components. Taking the p/p and clutch disc out would tell whether it's one of these (i.e. if problem ONLY there with clutch & p/p installed and goes away with removal, look at these components. If still there with ONLY the flywheel on, look at getting it balanced). If clutch/p.p. related issue, there must be something grossly wrong with either that a visual inspection would find (again something affecting balance;cannot imagine it as a runout issue - clutch/p.p. would have to be grossly misaligned). Does the clutch have sufficient capacity - i.e. if you hold the brakes in 2nd gear and let out the clutch slowly at high RPM, would it stall the tractor?
Let us know how you resolve it; am curious.

Are you EVEN kidding about the "grinder action" here???

Left the broken starter nose in it?????

I guess ANYBODY works on these???

(quoted from post at 02:36:12 12/21/11) Are you EVEN kidding about the "grinder action" here???

Left the broken starter nose in it?????

I guess ANYBODY works on these???

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Mike, I couldn't make this up if I wanted to. This Super M shook terribly. The broken nosecone took quite a bit of material off of the outside of the flywheel. There were alot of filings around the hole at the bottom of the clutch housing. Fella at the machine shop said that unless it was something rare to find another flywheel.

It's been 5 or 6 years since I fixed this. I believe it was the finger adjustment screws that were ground or filed down on the pressure plate. Either that, or the pump resovoir did it, but it sure looked like someone took some more material off to make it clear.

Belly pump resovoir for a Super M is different than an M for the larger clutch to clear. IH's last available replacement for all was the Super M one, but hasn't been available for years and it wasn't easy to find one that wasn't in a running tractor. Proper pressure plate was readily available aftermarket.

AG