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Super A leak

D

David Lampman

Member
The used block that I just installed on my S A has a VERY SMALL leak. It is above and to the rear of the carb. It's not a crack. It looks like a casting flaw to me. I've got about 10 hours on her since the replacement and it has only leaked enough to wet the block below the leak, but not enough to run off the tractor. It can't be more than 10 or 12 drops that have come out of it. As I said a VERY SMALL leak. This tractor doesn't have a water pump. So my question is, would Bars Leak (or an equivalent leak stopper) work in the non-water pump cooling system? I'm thinking that there may not be enough circulation to allow it to work. I think I could fix it with a quick buzz from my mig but I wanted to see what you guys have to say about Bars Leak in my old beauty, before I try to weld it. I'm a little concerned that the small hole flaw may turn out to be a large area that is so thin I'd wind up with a tried repair that does more damage and increases the hole size.
What do you think guys?
Dave
 
tough call - personally, I think I'd smear a little jb weld on it and see if that works.

I would guess it's a crack from freezing - that area seems to be a common spot for such a thing. Probably didn't expand far enough to cause a full, obvious crack, just a real small one.

It's not a heavily stressed area, so shouldn't be a concern. All that matters is stopping the coolant flow, and the jb weld should do that.

If you're careful you should be able to make it pretty invisible.
 
For one like that I would use Bar's Leak liquid copper which works better then the old black type bar's leak. I used it in my BA when I built it just to make sure I did not have any leaks and it has not caused any problems and may have fixed any that might have been there
 
JR,
You replied:

"I would guess it's a crack from freezing - that area seems to be a common spot for such a thing. Probably didn't expand far enough to cause a full, obvious crack, just a real small one."

You could be right but it looks like a bubble that popped and left a small crater. I don't think it's a crack, I really think it's a casting flaw.
The JB weld is an idea I considered but the hole is so small that I'm not sure if I could get the JB Weld forced into the hole well enough to seal it. I've had mixed luck with JB Weld on cast iron in the past.

Any thoughts on weather or not there is enough circulation in my non-water pump system for Bars Leak to work?
Dave
 
Ya I found the copper type works far better then the old stuff does. The BA I built I used all used parts on it other then where I had no choice to do other wise like new oil. I used a used head gasket and do not remember what I did with the sleeves but any how had a little water in the oil so put in the sealer and that went away fast but the water could also have been condensation since running it cleared it up
 
Wow! A used head gasket? I've been an auto mechanic for over 30 years. In that business that is a real no no! I once had a ford V8 come into my shop that was assembled with the old headgaskets. The crankcase was full to the brim with coolant. To this day I'm not sure how it filled up because it was poring out both sides of the engine so much, I can't figure how so much got inside.
Do you suppose it worked because it was originally torqued to the old spec (65 ft. lbs?) and you torqued it to the new spec (80 ft. lbs.?)
OOPS!! There I go hijacking my own thread! Oh well…
Dave
 
That's exactly what my concern would be - I just don't know exactly how the leak stop stuff works. I assume it relies on a water pump to mix it throughout the coolant.

I suppose one thing you could try- and this COULD be a total waste of time - but it sounds sensible to me...

but you could drain the system, pre-mix the bars leak stop stuff into some water/coolant, then add it to into the block. - put it in gallon jugs, shake it up real good and get it suspended - then dump it in. Keep doing that till you're full.

Just a thought.

Been a while since I used jbweld, having a hard time remembering how thick it is. If it's kind of clay like, you could always use 5 minute expoxy (metal kind) instead - I know that's real runny when you first mix it up. Should be able to press that into a tiny hole - at least well enough to seal it. And I might leave a very thin layer covering the area if you can make it look neat.

I'd scuff the area up first with a little 2" sanding disk in a die grinder type of thing. (but I too would be worried about opening the whole too much - just get it to bare metal)

At least with the jbweld/epoxy you've really got nothing to lose. If it doesn't work and you need to weld it, it's all going to have to be ground down a little more drastically anyways.
 
Would you believe I used the old torque spec instead of the new spec. Still have not opened it back up to re-torque it to the 80ft/lbs. As for the way I did it I was trying to do it old school like it might have been done back in the day when a dollar was a days wage and people had to get by with doing things in ways not heard of today. My self I have been working on engines etc since I was 13 or so started with an old lawn mower my dad gave me and have gone from there to just about any other type/size of engine. The BA I built is not a real modal of tractor but one built from parts of a couple Bs I had and part of a A I had
 
Good advise JR. I still haven't decided how I'm going to proceed. It doesn't need to be done today anyway. There isn't much use for the A this time of year in Vermont. That is until I can find a grader/plow setup locally that I can afford to buy. I think I'll see if I get any other ideas from this thread before I proceed.
Thanks Again,
Dave
 
I too started around the same age and it was also an old lawn mower engine. I had visions of mounting it on a go-cart that I had visions of making. I got the go-cart built (such as it was) but couldn't figure out how to make a clutch because there was no money to buy one. I envied every mini-bike I saw go by for their clutches. Quite a bit of water under the bridge since then...talking the early 60's.
I know about your BA. I've read your post on it. Very ingenious! I'm curious though, Did it take any parts or pieces that were not on the A's or B's? Any Fabrications?
The old low compression, low RPM engines never cease to amaze me in their willingness to run. It seems like you could put them together with a few layers of wax paper or even without gaskets and they would at least run (I don't think I would want to put any coolant in it though :)).
Just curious, was there any oil seepage around the outer edge of that used head gasket you used?
Dave
 
I would drill the Pit with the tap drill for a 1/8" pipe thread then plug it with a nice brass fitting with teflon tape. (Easy permanent, and looks like it grew there) Jim
 
How are you going to get the Bars leak or any sealer to work on that engine without a water pump to circulate the coolant. You can pour all you want and it will go to the bottom of the outlet where the coolant flows into the radiator. Iv had many many apart and its not uncommon to see some sort of sealer setting in the outlet cause it just wont circulate.
 
good luck with it.

I'm in MA, have a super A, and am also sort of casually looking for a cheap snow plow.

500-600 seems to be the going rate for them.

Kind of hard to justify, especially while I still need to dump money into more necessary parts for it.
 
I did not have to fab any parts for it since the engine of the A and B and for that matter the C are all the same so every thing bolts right up. As for the head gasket I used a number of coats of aluminum paint on both sides of the gasket and also a wet coat on the block and head so the paint was wet when I set the head on. Only thing I did see and that stopped was the oil got a milky color for the first couple runs then that to even cleared up so guess had just little bit of coolant in the oil and as I ran the engine it cooked it out.
Now talking about go carts I could tell you a story about washing machine parts and dryer parts and a 1/4hp electric motor and the extension cord. Never did get it up to top speed because I didn't have a long enough extension cord. Or the Honda 50 that should have had 4 gears but only had 1st, 2nd, and 4th due to the fact I use an automatic clutch instead of the hand clutch and some how lost 3rd gear
 
Not a bad idea - I think I'd do that before trying to weld it.

Welding a block can be dangerous (for the block anyways).
 
I have never seen it be a problem and have used it more then once in engines with out water pumps. Ah the flow is not that of an engine with a water pump but if you put it in to a warm engine to start with it does its job well
 
I couldn't agree more. 5 or 6 hundred dollars is to steep for me too. But I keep hoping someone will take pitty on me a sell one for a reasonable price. I mean, I've seen A's and Super A's for less than some of the plows I've seen for sale around here.
 
Hay Jim, that's a great idea! I never thought of that. I have the drills, taps and plugs right in stock.
Thanks for the input!
Dave
 
You’re right JR it can be hazardous. I've had pretty good luck welding small areas on cast iron with my mig. As long as I don't get it overly hot it seems to work. But I really like Jim’s idea, the brass plug.
 
I'm a little concerned that the small hole flaw may turn out to be a large area that is so thin I'd wind up with a tried repair that does more damage and increases the hole size.
Click to expand...
Going back to this originally stated concern, don't know how real that concern is. You probably won't know unless it becomes a real problem. But keep in mind that the JB Weld solution runs a near zero chance of encountering it. Any attempt at welding has some risk of blowing a hole you weren't expecting. Trying to drill and tap for a plug depends on a pretty good thickness of material so you can cut the threads. I think drill and tap runs a bigger risk than welding. And if it doesn't work out, you have a much bigger hole to try to fix by the other methods!
 
I had one just like yours, I sandblasted everything, rebuilt engine, primered it, started it up to retorque head and adjust valves before painting it, and there it was just a little drop of water, it never leaked enough to every drop on the floor, checked it close there was a small crack, the big water jacket that runs from front to back of block is right under it, all that I have taken apart the back of the engine [ where the crack is] is full of rust and dirt about 3-4 inches from the back of the block, I think its a combination of rusting and it being thin to the start with that causes the cracks.
I was like you I would just weld it, it wasnt a good ideal for me [ do good at welding ], very thin, after two days and it leaking a lot worst, I went for the JB weld, 4 years its still dont leak, just my 2 cents, good luck what ever you decide. Mike
 
Barsleak is fine in a thermosyphon system IF it used right. Pretty simple, add the Barsleak and run the tractor up to temp, and keep it there for 30-40 mins. The circulation is fine when up to temp.

Also, the new formulation of Barsleak does NOT have the pellets like the old stuff. Barsleak is a unique polymer that reacts to being saturated. They shrink when wet, and when they hit air, they expand like blood clotting. Barsleak was developed during WWII for the US Navy to seal minor leaks on submarines. The stuff works when used properly AND it will not plug cooling systems IF used properly. Like anything else, when not used according to directions, it will produce undesirable results.

I have used barsleak on many thermosyphon systems, mostly when the drain plugs won't seal or there are minor leaks in the radiator. Works fine.

If you pour too many bottles in, and you don't run the engine up to temp, the old formulation will plug even cooling systems with water pumps on them.
 
Ha - me too! Unfortunately, not a lot of pity out there!

As for already attached to a tractor - that's one truth I've found in the tractor world. When you buy a tractor, hold out for one that comes with EVERYTHING you want.

The cheapest way to buy parts is bundled with a tractor, hands down.

In fact, I've been thinking that perhaps the best way to go about it is to buy a tractor with the plow, remove it, and sell the tractor.

But, that takes time, and effort. As usual, too many other projects going on.
 
Try ProPoxy20, you can find it at a plumbing supply house like Ferguson or Noland. It's a 2part putty stick that you knead with your fingers until it turns grey then apply to a clean,dry surface.I've used it to repair leaks in boat motors,water pumps and to repair leaking weld joints.It takes 30 minutes to fully cure and can be drilled,sanded,painted,etc.I used it to repair the check valve seat in a Cub touch control also.Best part is there's no mess like JBWeld.
 
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