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MD Head gasket clarification

H

hatrick

Member
I need to buy a top end kit for the MD we have been working on. The motor we are swapping into the MD came out of a TD6 and had been rebuilt. It has 4" sleeves in it that protrude above the plane of the block slightly. The local IH dealer locally says that they only show one for the standard bore. I talked with a guy at Carter and Gruenewald and he said that the IH part number is 87427495 and that the MD, SMD and 400 are all the same. He seems to know what he is talking about but it conflicts a little with what I have read here and also very specifically on online sites it lists a standard bore and 4" bore. I have not been able to find an engine part breakdown for the Super MD to see if it lists the same number as the one for the MD. I would like to get a good price but it is more important to me that I get a good quality gasket and that it is correct for the bore/sleeves that I have.
 

I would listen to the guy at C&G.

Most of the "on-line" sources you have checked ALL get their parts from the same one or two places, and they use the information that is supplied by those same one or two places. Quite often that information is wrong, or at least not quite accurate.
 
The determining factor is going to be the outside diameter of the sleeve flange. I'm thinking the 248 even with the 4 inch sleeves has a smaller out side flange than the 4 inch sleeve used in a 264 or 4 1/8th in the 281. I may be wrong on this but it just seems to ring a bell.The gasket has to set well up on the flange not just the very outer edge. Also, your flange height above the block should be slight, like .002 to .004 or look for cracked sleeves and leaking gaskets. I am not talking about the fire ring which will protrude nearly the height of the gasket thickness. Parts books show a different number for M verses 400 but that might have changed.
 
87427495 is the new # for a 261339R92 gasket set for a SMD to 450D. But it contains a different head gasket than what IH used for 4 inch MD conversion packages. They used old # 305805R1 head gasket that has a new #, different from the head gasket in the 261339R92 kit.
4 inch MD used the same piston as a SM engine but a different # sleeve. So I don't know if the one head gasket in the new # kits fit all or not.
If so I wonder why they still show old head gasket 305805R1 with a new # different than the head gasket # for a C264 and C281 engine. Sorry more questions than answers.
 
Didn't put the new # for head gasket 305805R1 is 225604A1. New # for head gasket that used to be in 261339R92 gasket kit is 1191166A1. That used to be a 53436DE gasket in old kits. Don't know what kind of gaskets is in the kits now.
 
Also I was just thinking that alot of times the Trac tractor engines have full protruding liners which is a different head gasket that the ag tractors takes.
 
The original part number was 53436DE, this tells me that it has been changed or something 6 times by IH, they dont list any other number for sleeve protrusion or bore.
 
Just remember he is working with a TD6 block every one of them I have ever dealt with selling parts has protruding liners and the gasket in the MD parts book will not work for it.
 
Never worked on a TD engine. My information shows TD6 and MD 4 inch sleeves the same. Maybe I can learn something new.
 
After more checking last night some information shows the 53436DE gasket works for your engine and some says otherwise. Please let us know what you come up with. If the TD6 engine was originally a 3-7/8 engine, both it and the MD 4 inch bore kits at one time came with the 305805R1 or 2 head gasket. If 53436DE takes the place of 305805R2 I wonder why they still handle a 305805R2 gasket. Unless thats not the case.
 
(quoted from post at 06:02:25 12/06/11) After more checking last night some information shows the 53436DE gasket works for your engine and some says otherwise. Please let us know what you come up with. If the TD6 engine was originally a 3-7/8 engine, both it and the MD 4 inch bore kits at one time came with the 305805R1 or 2 head gasket. If 53436DE takes the place of 305805R2 I wonder why they still handle a 305805R2 gasket. Unless thats not the case.
Click to expand...

53436DE is an old, original part number. The 305805R1 is a NEW part number. The 2 part numbers MIGHT be the same gasket, or they may be for DIFFERENT gaskets.
 
Don't know about the present parts but the gaskets didn't used to be the same. Sometime in around 1951 IH changed the engine blocks, think it was to a DN suffix on the block casting #. Head gasket was changed at that time from 53436DD to DE. 53436DD wasn't to be used on the new blocks but 53436DE could be used in place of the DD gasket on other engines. This was before they came out with 4 inch bore kits for a MD. When the 4 inch bore P&S came out for the MD gasket 305805R1 was to be used. SMD to 450 still specified the 53436DE gasket.
Unless my information is wrong the new case IH # for gasket 305805R1 and also the other new # for 53436DE is in one of my other posts. Don't know why they still have 2 numbers if its the same gasket.
 
So I have still not yet received a firm answer on this gasket but I plan to make a few calls tomorrow. The old stuck engine that had 3-7/8" pistons had a 53436? stamped on it and it also said Mccord 6160. This gasket goes around the outside of the protruding sleeves(not on top like a super c). I then took a look at the TD6 block that has the 4" sleeves and it has the exact same gasket. It appears like the sleeves just have a thinner shoulder than the one with the smaller sleeves making the outside diameter the 4" sleeve the same as the 3-7/8. This is maybe why they told me that the 3-7/8 kit is the same as the 4". It does not really make any sense based on the purchasing sources online as they distinctly say for "original bore" or "4 inch" bore. Still a little nervous as nobody seems to know for sure.
 
So I have still not yet received a firm answer on this gasket but I plan to make a few calls tomorrow. The old stuck engine that had 3-7/8" pistons had a 53436? stamped on it and it also said Mccord 6160. This gasket goes around the outside of the protruding sleeves(not on top like a super c). I then took a look at the TD6 block that has the 4" sleeves and it has the exact same gasket. It appears like the sleeves just have a thinner shoulder than the one with the smaller sleeves making the outside diameter the 4" sleeve the same as the 3-7/8. This is maybe why they told me that the 3-7/8 kit is the same as the 4". It does not really make any sense based on the purchasing sources online as they distinctly say for "original bore" or "4 inch" bore. Still a little nervous as nobody seems to know for sure.
 
I have still not taken the time to figure out what the right gasket actaully is but need to in the next week, Can you tell me what you mean by full protruding liners? Also from a prior post I have heard that the gasket should sit on top of the sleeve shoulder that protrudes but the stock bore block and the block with the 4" sleeves both have gaskets that seat around the outside of the sleeve and not on top.
 
So I spent quite along time on the phone with Chad at Carter adn Gruenwald about this gasket and here is what I found out.

The 87427495 is the replacement number for 261339R92. I had him look up the 53436DE number which is the number on the gasket that I have on the TD6 block with 4" sleeves. 53436E has been replaced by 119166A1. He had a way to look at what kits the 119166A1 was included in and it is included in the 87427495. So looking at it in both directions I should have the right gasket. We will see when I get it. A good price of $167.17 too.

Also I had him look up the 305805R1 number that was referenced and he said that this was the gasket set for the "M" so that would not be the correct one for what I need.

Thanks to everyone that provided input on this.
 
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