M has me stumped

Oldiron29 · Dec 3, 2011

Here is what I no! cousin bought 1950 M not running now. PO had pulled the head and was going to install new head gasket. Small amount of antifreeze getting into oil. He had farmed with this tractor everday untill he took it apart, Tractor sat in shed for 2 1/2 years apart, Not Stuck. PO supplied new gasket and new manifold, all other parts where there. Cousin brought it to me to put back together. I cleaned all surfaces Honed cyclinders only to clean of carbone and light rust. No real ridge to speak of. Sprayed copper coat on new gasket put on head, manifold torqued all adjusted valves and put cover on. Check mag for timing. Found weak yellow spark at mag. Installed new mag coil and condensor, Have good blue 1/4" plus spark from mag now. Install new copper wire plug wires and have blue spark at all plugs. So today remove carb and cleaned and removed parts and replace all looks good When I choke it plenty of gas at carb. Compression test 125,135,135,135 New spark plugs Cranking with battery not by hand. I can not get this M to pop spit or fart nothing. I have been over everything many time and talked myself alot! If I squeeze bottle gas in plug holes Nohting!Could it be flood that bad??
Oldiron29

Tom Fleming · Dec 3, 2011

Oldiron, if you have a helper handy, I would pull it around for 5-10 mins. See if that does get her to phart. Put it in 4th, and let her chug.

JT · Dec 3, 2011

If you think you might have it flooded, then probably the best thing to do is to hook a chain to it and pull it and see if that gets her to fire for you....Sounds as though you have got all the bases covered for diagnostics.

Oldiron29 · Dec 3, 2011

Tom, Battery is spinning it fast enough. I don't think spinning it faster is the answer. Tractor with mag should pop when cranking by hand. I do better with the old stuff Never have starting problem with Regular's or F's oldiron29

riverbend · Dec 3, 2011

Take the spark plugs out and get them good and hot on the gas stove. Put 'em in and try it right away. If that doesn't do it, I'd check the timing again.

Greg

Anonymous-0 · Dec 3, 2011

Are the plugs wet or dry? I like wd40 for priming cylinders doesn't run off or evaporate as quick. It's either out of time or you're losing your spark somehow.

Heat Houser · Dec 3, 2011

I know this is very basic, but thought I would ask....did you check distrubutor rotation, CW or CCW and firing order on the wires, 1 3 4 2.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 3, 2011

Well you say that you have spark, compression and you know it's getting gas. I think the thing you are missing is the spark getting to the plugs at the right time. You need to bring # 1 piston up on compression and then check to see which sparkplug the rotor is sending the spark to. Let us know what you find. keep us posted

Oldiron29 · Dec 3, 2011

I have checked timing #1 spark just after compression TDC. I wish timing was off and it backfired somewhere. I don't get it. Plugs don't look that wet. I am leaning more to fuel problem BUT! I put gas in plug holes nothing so it must be flooded. oldiron29

Oldiron29 · Dec 3, 2011

Todd, I never tried WD40 before.That a new one on me. oldiron29

Anonymous-0 · Dec 3, 2011

A lawnmower mechanic taught it to me years ago. Just give each cylinder a healthy shot. You can spray it directly into the intake as well if troubleshooting a Carb issue.

tom grim · Dec 3, 2011

make darn sure your condensor has the ground clip installed and is clean. Had the same problem and you never forget the tough ones

D Slater · Dec 3, 2011

I assume the new manifold is aftermarket. Did you feel for suction at the carb inlet when cranking? Heard of one being cast over inside.

Oldiron29 · Dec 3, 2011

D, There was a piece of cast stuck in side new maifold 3/8 round 7-8" long rattling around in side I taped it with a chisel and it broke in half than I could get it out. But yah I have good sucktion at the carb. Only thing I can say is that the poor spark when trying to start before mag rebuild caused the engine to flood.
But that has been 3-4 days now. Today I started with carb removal and cleaning. Had a little puff of smoke couple times and than nothing.
oldiron29

Mayor · Dec 3, 2011

If I were you......I"d hook a chain too her and pull her around the barnyard a few times and I"ll bet she"ll clear her throat and take right off!.

S2710 · Dec 3, 2011

I would stick another set of plugs in and try that. I have had one flood so bad that after I dried the plugs off I had to put in new ones to get it started.

Bob

John M · Dec 3, 2011

Lets trade for the day! You come fix my buddies 12, and Ill work on your M!! Sound like the float is hanging up causing your flooding issue!

Might want to check the wire going to the mag from the switch, Could have a bare spot in it

CNKS · Dec 3, 2011

Set the mag so that it is just ready to trip with #1 on TDC. In other words, with the mag off turn the rotor until it is pointing at #1 on the cap WITHOUT tripping it. Flooding is not your problem unless you are cranking it with the choke on. A correctly timed and tuned engine will almost always fire with the choke off, or on for no more than a couple of revolutions. Anymore and it is flooded.

Allen A. · Dec 3, 2011

Is it possible that you have a partially plugged exhaust manifold that is giving you the indication of compression on what is actually the number 1 exhaust stroke. take the second half of the firing order and write it under the first half. the numbers that are above and below each other are running mates, that is to say that those 2 pistons will always be in the exact same position in their cylinders. they will however be on opposite strokes. number 1 will be coming up on compression while it"s running mate, will be coming up on exhaust. number 1 will reach TDC ignition and start down on power as it"s running mate finishes exhaust and starts down on intake. remove the valve cover and watch the rocker activity. when running mate to number 1 is closing its exhaust and opening its intake ( due to valve overlap the intake will start to open before the exhaust finishes closing) number 1 will reach TDC compression. this is the most certain way to verify TDC compression number 1. check that the mag impulse is working and recheck the timing. if she flashes up watch the exhaust. maybe a mouse nest or something will come flying out. this method of verify number 1 TDC compression works on any 4 stroke with even number of cylinders. you just need to know the firing order.

rustred · Dec 3, 2011

yep, thats why i say to always watch the running mates valves, they will be "on the rock", meaning if you rock the crank the valves do the same. and the one you want is on compression. very simple to do and cant go wrong this way. i dont even have to remove the plugs to know which cyl is on compression to adjust valves.thats the way i was taught, so we must have went to the same "old school".

hoof print · Dec 3, 2011

did you remove the small timing gears in the mag, behind the rotor? If so, you might not have them meshed together right.

Alont · Dec 4, 2011

Agree
charliez wrote:-

Well you say that you have spark, compression and you know it's getting gas. I think the thing you are missing is the spark getting to the plugs at the right time

You have put gas in the plug holes, it should pop unless the spark aint there/valves closed, at that time.
I would remove the spark plugs,spin it over to clear the cylinders, put gas in each, plugs in and see what happens then

Alont

riverbend · Dec 4, 2011

The idea is to get the plugs hot. Try starting the engine while the plugs are still warm. It helps vaporize the fuel.

If the plugs are not wet are you sure it is flooded ? Is it any better if you shut the fuel off ?

Greg

SadFarmall · Dec 5, 2011

Flooding can be fairly easily cleared fairly quickly in my experience, especially with the kerosene carb, just drain it. If I suspect the tractor wants to flood, I turn on the fuel, crank the motor twice with choke then turn off the fuel supply and start the tractor. As soon as it is running, turn the fuel on again. That way the thing will not flood. Also might be a foolish suggestion, but is the ignition timing 180 degrees out? It has been done before…
SadFarmall

M has me stumped

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