Cracked Block

Livin the Dream · Nov 10, 2011

Any suggestions on how to handle a cracked blocked. I know it can be fixed but looking for idea's and suggestions. Best practical way.

souNdguy · Nov 10, 2011

which block, where's the crack?

was it a 'freeze' ?

is it leaking water externally?

internally?

oil getting into water?

water getting into oil?

soundguy

JRSutton · Nov 10, 2011

In my search for a machine shop to work on my engine (they're disappearing rather quickly in my neck of the woods), I kept coming across shops that specialize in antique vehicles, and they all promote "cold stitching" for fixing blocks.

I don't have any experience with it, but what they say about it makes a lot of sense. Just do a google search for it and I'm sure you can find somebody in your area.

Best bet would be to discuss it with them.

Many cracks you can ignore - but then again - many you can't. I'm a big fan of doing it right the first time. To me, that stitching process sounds like the right way to go.

David G · Nov 10, 2011

Arnold motor supply in State Center Iowa can weld it if it is
repairable. They heat it up in a forge and weld it red hot.

Livin the Dream · Nov 10, 2011

(quoted from post at 07:38:08 11/10/11) which block, where's the crack?

was it a 'freeze' ?

is it leaking water externally?

internally?

oil getting into water?

water getting into oil?

soundguy

It's a 1950 Super A, the crack that I've found is almost directly behind the carb...it's horizontal...it's leaking antifreeze, no indication that it's leaking internally in oil and no indication that oil is getting into water or antifreeze.

As far as is it a freeze or not I do not know. Have only had tractor since late June...fellow I got it from said he thought it had a cracked block but wasn't sure....I found busted hose and thought I'd found the issue.

souNdguy · Nov 10, 2011

in that area, you could always strip it down, lay it over clean up real well and braze or silver solder it, if it is only an external leak.

aftrer cleaning and wire wheel, and a slight grooving, tons of flux and silver solder will be easiest.. followed by brazing next..

I've fixed a ford block with a similar crack.. I know it's been dry for years now..

soundguy

teddy52food · Nov 10, 2011

My Super C had a crack there too. I welded it with 99 nickel rod at least 35 years ago & it is still dry today. I don"t know why they crack there. Must be a weak spot in the casting.

souNdguy · Nov 10, 2011

that ford I have is cracked right there... have seen at least a handfull of others with a crack there.

know of a SA with that entire side covered with brass..

gbs · Nov 10, 2011

cheap fix if works ok if not then your not out much money,drain coolant clean crack by lightly grinding or use coarse sand paper to leave cleaned area rough then apply a good layer of JB weld according to directions,used this several times with good results last time was on a V-10 ford engine that a small hole suddenly started leaking coolant on the left head, tried two different block sealers with no luck, so instead of spending $$$$ to repair the aluminum head or replace it, cleaned it forced some of the putty thru the hole then covered it over hasn't leaked for 2 years cost under $5

F-Dean · Nov 10, 2011

What Model? Wet or Dry Sleeves?

Tom Fleming · Nov 11, 2011

the C-113 and C-123 blocks are notorious for cracking in that area after freezing with water only in the cooling system. If you take the head off, you will also find a crack along the same side running along the water ports between #2 and #3 cylinders.

So, some food for thought. Thermosyphon systems are NOT pressurized, and have the greatest chance for success on a crack repair. All methods listed CAN work, but are not guarenteed. The bigger question is around the crack through the top of the block, between the water ports and sometimes the cylinder sleeve holes. I have seen a new head gaskets work on this type of crack without leak, and I have seen them fail.

Roll of the dice. Good news is, the C-113 engine is low rpm, low compression, and thermosyphon. You have to decide for yourself about whether or not to repair or replace. The only thing you have to lose is the cost of a head gasket and your time if you try (and possibly the cost to have it welded).

as always, IMHO.

mkirsch · Nov 11, 2011

I'd clean it up and paste on some JB weld as a first attempt at a repair. You can always try something more invasive if it doesn't work.

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

Thanks guys, my thoughts were the same. I have used a cheap product made by "Super Glue" for Steel Repairs, really amazed by the results. Like everyone said the prep is key for any repair to work. My plan was to clean up the very best I can, possibly even grind out the area and then lay some of this product into the crack and see what happens. Nothing to loose other than time.....have more of that than most. If it fails we will go from there.

Thanks again guys!

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

This info was a little dis-heartening. Sad to hear that this seems common to this engine. Only good thing is lots of them have been fixed and keep on going.

1953 jubilee · Nov 11, 2011

Livinig The Dream--the guys have already mentioned JB Weld, but I used JB Waterweld on my Jubilee that had a crack that ran around the outside of the block following the oil filter casting. Cleaned it with brake parts cleaner and worked the "dough" into the crack all the way around. Took some sandpaper and pressed it into the drying dough to give it texture. Removed the sandpaper and let it set for 24 hours. Painted it and its held for 5 years so far and you can hardly see the fix. The Jube gets a hard workout bush hogging over Wilson County Tennesse Limestone so it isn't just sitting in the barn. Best of all, didn't have to drain the radiator as that stuff works well wet! Hope you get yours fixed without having to tear it down!

JRSutton · Nov 11, 2011

Agreed that if it's just in the outside water jacket as you described, you really don't have anything to worry about.

I'm sure it was a freeze, and not a stress crack.

That area isn't "structural", its only job is to hold the water in, so the demands on your repair should be minimal.

You COULD probably just silicone it and not worry about for the next 20 years - though the jbweld would be a much nicer approach.

Personally, I'd pull the head and check the block over everywhere else. But at a minimum, check the condition of your oil frequently. Look for any light coffee color in it. And if you're ever putting white smoke out th exhaust - you should seriously take a look inside.

Good luck with it.

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:18:20 11/11/11) Livinig The Dream--the guys have already mentioned JB Weld, but I used JB Waterweld on my Jubilee that had a crack that ran around the outside of the block following the oil filter casting. Cleaned it with brake parts cleaner and worked the "dough" into the crack all the way around. Took some sandpaper and pressed it into the drying dough to give it texture. Removed the sandpaper and let it set for 24 hours. Painted it and its held for 5 years so far and you can hardly see the fix. The Jube gets a hard workout bush hogging over Wilson County Tennesse Limestone so it isn't just sitting in the barn. Best of all, didn't have to drain the radiator as that stuff works well wet! Hope you get yours fixed without having to tear it down!

Thanks for the Wetweld tip. I'm very encouraged by all the replies to using JB Weld. I too would like to use the tractor other than just idling around parades as a look nice but can't really put to work tractor. I included a picture of just where the leak is coming from.

Jim Becker · Nov 11, 2011

That is a pretty big crack, it may be a little tricky to get it sealed, especially in the middle where it appears that the upper edge of the crack has pushed out some. However, that crack is pretty low. If you only have the one crack, you are unlikely to have the problems up on top that earlier responses described.

Groove it and patch with JB weld. Keep on eye on the oil and coolant for cross contamination but I would be very surprised if a problem shows up later. This is all based on the one crack being the ONLY crack.

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

Jim that's tomorrow's project. Going to grind out the crack line and clean it nice and see what we can do.... thanks... Will detail this with some pic's and show just how it turns out...

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 22:02:11 11/11/11) That is a pretty big crack, it may be a little tricky to get it sealed, especially in the middle where it appears that the upper edge of the crack has pushed out some. However, that crack is pretty low. If you only have the one crack, you are unlikely to have the problems up on top that earlier responses described.

Groove it and patch with JB weld. Keep on eye on the oil and coolant for cross contamination but I would be very surprised if a problem shows up later. This is all based on the one crack being the ONLY crack.

That whole line isn't leaking, that line across there is the casting line, but the crack is along there about 4" either side of where you see fluid running out.

Livin the Dream · Nov 11, 2011

Little different angle of the crack....she's going to work.

Jim Becker · Nov 12, 2011

You can see the displacement of the material above the crack better in your later picture. But it is about what I thought from the first picture. The physical crack will be longer than what can be seen from the obvious leakage. I would drain it, hose it off and blow dry it. Then clean along the crack to get as good view of the crack as possible. I don't think it is necessary to stop drill the ends as there is no real stress there (other opinions may vary). Be sure to groove and JB Weld to the ends of the crack.

I think you are in good shape with that crack to get a tight patch.

Livin the Dream · Nov 12, 2011

Well I grinded out the crack all the way across and it was longer than I originally thought. Never did drain the anti-freeze from the tractor used JB-WaterWeld as mentioned by an earlier post. It didn't seem to bind real well at first, thought maybe it was to smooth after grinder but seems to have stuck pretty well. Pic's don't show the crack very well but you can see what I was working with. Then late tonight I lightly sanded the WaterWeld just a little, it was plenty hard, just not sure if I need to add another layer tomorrow. Or fill some anti-freeze back in above the leak level and see what happens.

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