M clutch stuck update

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

I pulled the belly pump and had a chance to visually inspect the clutch. I'm not familiar enough to know how things should look but the release bearing assy moves easily and engages the 3 levers when the clutch is depressed (pics show clutch pedal released and depressed). I assume that means the friction disc is stuck to the drive plate. Is this a symptom of a clutch that in the near future will need to be rebuilt? Also, the seal on the input shaft for the belly pump has been leaking. It looks like a the seal and bearing are held in place by a casting. Removing the cap bolts and casting would give access to that seal, or is it more complex than it looks?

mkirsch · Oct 20, 2011

On these old tractors, it's rarely more complex than it looks.

I know the bearing engages the pressure plate fingers, but does it actually PUSH them when you depress the pedal all the way?

The fingers look pretty worn, which means the clutch has been in there a LONG time. Don't assume the friction disk is rusted to the flywheel. It could very well be that the pressure plate is shot and is not releasing.

This is a plain M, right? You SHOULD be able to remove the clutch and pressure plate from underneath, without splitting the tractor.

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

That was my concern, I don't see the fingers actually move. It's not the Super so I expect I can pull the clutch as it sits. More pics to come....

Bill in NJ · Oct 20, 2011

Difficult to tell from the picture but it doesn't look like the pressure plate fingers have moved at all with the clutch pedal depressed. Is the clutch pedal linkage bending? Pressure plate fingers could be worn or just stuck. With the pedal depressed can you tap on the bolts that hold the fingers to the plate?

mkirsch · Oct 20, 2011

If the fingers ain't moving, the clutch ain't releasing...

In the words of Adam Savage, "WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!"

Is your clutch properly adjusted? IIRC you need 1-3/8" of free pedal play, measured up at the operator's platform.

It looks like you have 1-3/8" between the throwout and the clutch fingers.

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

The clutch pedal was within specs and the linkage is not bending. I suspect she"s just plain worn out.

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

I'll try tapping on the bolts to see what happens and update tonight.

F-Dean · Oct 20, 2011

Take plenty of notes & pictures as you take it apart. That will make it easier to put back together. Yes, from experience.

Janicholson · Oct 20, 2011

The free play at the fingers 9top photo) should be uniform, and the thickness of a popsickle stick (no more). Free playtment is wrong! Do that first. The pedal should move 1.25 inches then touch the T/O bearing to fingers. jim

John M · Oct 20, 2011

Looks to me like your not even pushing the pedal down all the way. I cant even tell the fingers have moved at all. You are pushing the pedal all the way down until it stops right, not just till it gets tight?

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

The pedal is actually bottoming when fully depressed against the tractor frame. In order to get more travel I would have to adjust the linkage, and it measured correctly when I initially checked it. I believe the spec was 1 1/8" of free travel.

Dale_MN · Oct 20, 2011

I checked the pedal free play before I started taking things apart and it matched what the book called for, I don't recall for sure the exact number. I was moving the lever by hand when I took the pics. Just to be sure, I used a wrench to add some leverage and it felt like more pressure would only bend or break something, not sure how much torq I dare put on it by hand. When the linkage was attached to the pedal, it would bottom at the platform frame.

Janicholson · Oct 20, 2011

The pedal free play is the amount it will move before the throwout bearing touches the fingers.
Have a second person with a ruler stand beside the tractor and measure between the edge of the platform and the place on the pedal that touches the platform. As they move the pedal downward by hand, you look at the throwout bearing as it moves to touch the fingers. When it touches, stop the person pushing and have them measure the distance. It must be in that 1.25" area. At that point the pressure should increase as the pedal is pushed farther. If the pedal moves, but the Throwout bearing does not, look for the lost motion. THe bolts that hold the throwout carrier on the shaft can be worn, the linkage can be loose, or other issues. If the measurement is more than 1.25, adjust the rod longer! till it is. If there is lost motion, fix it, it will not work correctly until this is under control. Jim

Maxx · Oct 21, 2011

A few things that may help you.
I did my MD awhile back, should be the same.
On mine the clutch release sleeve carrier was missing the mounting bolts but that's another story.
You will need to pull the clutch release shaft, there are 2 bolts on the release fork.
They go through the fork body that sandwiches a washer that is in a key-way in the release shaft.
Pull the washers out.
Pull the shaft out of the bell housing.
If you make sure the shaft is clean it will slide out fairly easy.
Then you should easily be able to get at the bolts that hold the sleeve carrier.
Remove the output shaft coupler.
The odds are you will have to unbolt the pressure plate to gain the angle to pull the output shaft.

As to your leaky seal, I assume you mean the counter shaft of the tranny is leaking. Mine was.
I used a small pipe wrench handle in the slot of the drive nut.
It is threaded onto the shaft so put tranny in highest gear and lock the brakes on.
I pulled the seal without pulling the housing.
I had drained the tranny and rearend for a lube change so I didn't worry about leaking all over the floor.

I have some really good pics with circles arrows and text but my account here won't allow me to post them since I am new here I guess.

Maxx

Owen Aaland · Oct 22, 2011

The upper lever has the end missing. The free travel you feel is when the release bearing touches the other two levers. The broken one does not move enough the release the clutch disk.

Tom Fleming · Oct 22, 2011

By golly Owen, now that you say that, and I look closer, I agree with you......

Maxx · Oct 22, 2011

[b:9fa3361ee3]Yup, It does look broke now that I look closer.

Lets see if the pics work now that I have 10 posts.

These were to go with my earlier post.

Maxx[/b:9fa3361ee3]

kevinj54 · Oct 23, 2011

I am confused. Some pics show a good throw out bearing and now you have one with a failed bearing?????

Dale_MN · Oct 23, 2011

I can see the difference in the ends of the release levers. Mine are clearly missing the ends. I appreciate all the feedback. I"m looking at next week at best before I can tear into it. I"ll have some pics to post, and if I run into issues I"ll post it. Maxx, if you"d be so good as to post a link to your earlier post that would be great.

Maxx · Oct 23, 2011

(quoted from post at 00:53:30 10/22/11) A few things that may help you.
I did my MD awhile back, should be the same.
On mine the clutch release sleeve carrier was missing the mounting bolts but that's another story.
You will need to pull the clutch release shaft, there are 2 bolts on the release fork.
They go through the fork body that sandwiches a washer that is in a key-way in the release shaft.
Pull the washers out.
Pull the shaft out of the bell housing.
If you make sure the shaft is clean it will slide out fairly easy.
Then you should easily be able to get at the bolts that hold the sleeve carrier.
Remove the output shaft coupler.
The odds are you will have to unbolt the pressure plate to gain the angle to pull the output shaft.

As to your leaky seal, I assume you mean the counter shaft of the tranny is leaking. Mine was.
I used a small pipe wrench handle in the slot of the drive nut.
It is threaded onto the shaft so put tranny in highest gear and lock the brakes on.
I pulled the seal without pulling the housing.
I had drained the tranny and rearend for a lube change so I didn't worry about leaking all over the floor.

I have some really good pics with circles arrows and text but my account here won't allow me to post them since I am new here I guess.

Maxx

Dale, Feel free to ask any questions.
I just did mine July 31 so it is still fresh in my mind.
I got my parts at a good price $235 from Michigan (shipping included).
It had the Pressure plate, Clutch disk, Throw-out bearing, Pilot bearing and an alignment tool.
I didn't use the tool.
I went to Harbor Freight and got a puller for the crank bearing.

Maxx

(quoted from post at 07:31:26 10/23/11)
I am confused. Some pics show a good throw out bearing and now you have one with a failed bearing?????

[b:c5a78e4caf]Those pics are from my MD. Not Dale_MN's M.

Maxx[/b:c5a78e4caf]

kevinj54 · Oct 24, 2011

(quoted from post at 09:54:47 10/23/11)

(quoted from post at 00:53:30 10/22/11) A few things that may help you.

(quoted from post at 07:31:26 10/23/11)
I am confused. Some pics show a good throw out bearing and now you have one with a failed bearing?????

Click to expand...

[b:384f4da352]Those pics are from my MD. Not Dale_MN's M.

Maxx[/b:384f4da352]

Click to expand...

Oops!!!!!!!!! Lost track of the OP!!!!!

M clutch stuck update

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