F-20 cracked block revisited

SDE · Oct 18, 2011

I looked at the crack from inside the second cyclinder opening. The crack goes from the top to the bottom. I could not get a photo that looks any better than the first one. Now what will I need to do?
Thank you
Steve

Oldiron29 · Oct 18, 2011

If it indeed is cracked! start looking for a doner block F-20 block are common should be able to find another. It will cost more to fix what you have. oldiron29

Janicholson · Oct 18, 2011

If the crack is clearly through the block side wall, in my opinion it needs to be replaced. A weld could fix it, but would be very expensive, as the cleaning and preheating and welding to make it reliable is more than a different block. It is not just a water leak, it is structural. Jim

Tom Fleming · Oct 18, 2011

I agree with what has been said. If it goes all the way through the block, top to bottom, time for a new block.

SDE · Oct 18, 2011

The portion of the block that is cracked is about three inches deep from top to bottom. The crack goes from top to bottom of this divider. I am sure this is designed to provide structural strength to the block. I hope this photo works this time.
One photo for each of you lol I am just trying to be sure you are understanding me correctly.
Thank you
Steve

SDE · Oct 18, 2011

I have added another photo. I hope you can see the crack at the top of the deck. From the back side, I could see that it went down to the bottom of this cross sectional piece. Could I drill a hole and add a threaded rod across the block to pull it together?
Steve

Tom Fleming · Oct 18, 2011

Well, if it were mine, and I was wanting to save this block, I would take it to a good welder and have it welded. You are looking to have structural repair here, not cosmetic or water tight. all that needs repaired is totally within the water jacket.

all depends upon what your wallet can stand, but you asked for an opinion, and that is what I would do to it.

SDE · Oct 18, 2011

I really do appreciate all of your thoughts about this. This was probably the first tractor that I rode or drove as a child. My grandfather bought it new in 39 and my Uncle found it and was restoring it before he died. I am trying to do what he would have done. He had installed new main bearing and I am sure he would not have done so if he knew it was cracked. I bought a donor engine at the same auction, but I don't know the condition of it either.

T.Y.
steve

RedRoundhead · Oct 18, 2011

You will need to have the head surface where the weld repair was done milled flush, and the sleeve counterbore and through bore will have to have the weld removed as well. Those steps may cost more than the weld job. Also, is there press on those sleeves? The block may be "sprung" open, out of tolerence, and may not hold a sleeve an longer. They may be out of round. It would be unfortunate to have a weld repair done, only to find the block out of specification.

Best of luck!

teddy52food · Oct 18, 2011

I would put it together & run it. Once the head is bolted down where is it going to go? That crack may have been there long before it was taken apart. The gasket will seal the top of the sleeve so no water leak. Welding may cause more stress & warpage.

Tom Fleming · Oct 18, 2011

Teddy, you are not too far off. Still a bit hard to tell from the pictures, but I have run some C-113 engines with cracked blocks without issue. You are correct, once the head is torqued down, not much is going to move around. Now, I am agreeing with you based upon where the crack is.

A good welder should be able to just weld this in the water jacket area, and not do anything on the gasket surface deck. These old blocks are pretty forgiving in many ways. The down side to putting her back together without doing anything is the risk that she leaks.......she certainly isn't going to fly apart ( or at least that is the lowest risk of them all).

IMHO.

Janicholson · Oct 18, 2011

The crack can be welded in that location. it will need to be preped and welded correctly, but it is not fatal to the block.
The crack in the deck between cylinders in not critical, and the top of the sleeve will seal the head to the combustion chamber. I would only weld the portion below the rim seat recess, and leave the top of the deck and its crack, alone. I would upt copper coat on the crack in a streak down the crack with a tiny brush, then let it dry. I would spray the head gasket with Copper Coat and just as it starts to become not tacky I would put it on and go. There is no external leak possible from this crack. It will be fine. (that is is the crack is the one centered in each and every picture above! Jim

Oldiron29 · Oct 18, 2011

Teddy, I would think a crack means there is movement. The crack will open and close with heating and cooling. Over time I am sure this will cause head gasket failure. If money is not a problem I would have it fixed. or get another block. oldiron29

Tom Fleming · Oct 18, 2011

Die grinder with a 3/8" conenose on it. 30 mins of grinding. another 30 mins with a rosebud to evenly heat up the block. 15 mins with 2-3 nickel rods (depending upon how much he grooves the crack). Then another hours worth of occasional heating with the rosebud to cool her down right. Peen weld when cool to relieve the stress. As I said, no finish work on this to make it look pretty.

good to go. 3 hours at $75 per hour, plus costs of nickel rod and gas consumption. A good welder knows the CFM of his nozzles and prices accordingly. most of the time here is pre-heating, and controlled cool down. Not many local welders have an oven big enough for a block this size.

I would guess $250-$300 would do it. Of course my opinion again.

JRSutton · Oct 18, 2011

I'm not too familiar with cold-pinning and its limitations. Might be too hard to get into that small area to even try it.

But - can't hurt to look into it. Or perhaps somebody here has more experience with it.

Don't know where you are, but here's link to a place near me that does it (in MA)
Untitled URL Link

rustred · Oct 18, 2011

put the sleeves in and get it together that crack wont hurt a darn thing on that old slow rpm engine that wont be worked anyhow. nothing to worry about.

F-Dean · Oct 18, 2011

You call that a crack!!! Put the sleeves in and run it. The sleeve rim will hold everything in place. Don't waste time and money on this crack.

Nebraska Cowman · Oct 19, 2011

Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about that little crack.

SDE · Oct 19, 2011

Hello Mr. Nebraska Cowman. Thank you for adding to the discussion. As I recall you are a resident expert On the old stuff. I don't know how many extra parts I have and how many parts I am missing, but I sure hope I can do this Tractor proud in respect for both my Grandpa and his son who started the restoration. I have two manuals to look at and hope to be able to figure it out myself, but if I need help, I hope to be able to rely on a few of you here for help.
Steve

Old-F20 · Oct 19, 2011

that cracks not gonna hurt anything, done it before

F-20 cracked block revisited

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