Some kind of new to me issue with my H...

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 11, 2011

I was comming back from raking, yesterday, & the tractor started to get a chug to it like a 2-cyl Deere. I was in road gear, w.o.t. & had just got back up to speed after a stop sign. It just up & started missing, first one cylinder, then two. I got in the driveway & looked over the engine. Nuthin'. Started the tractor, same deal. Pulled the plugs; 1 & 2 are clean, 3 & 4 are sooty. Gap is fine. Wires & plugs are a year or two old. Cap is clean with barely any buildup on the contacts(?). I have figured out that cyl 1 & 2 are the problem cylinders. Those two plug wires were left off by accident & the engine was started. It sounded the same when running. I put 1 & 2 back on & removed #3. No start. Then wire #4. Same deal. I have not checked the fuel system, I will be doing that when I am done here. Could I have a valve or two hanging up? I feared it might be the head gasket, but the exhaust is clean. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

rustyfarmall · Oct 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:07:04 10/11/11) I was comming back from raking, yesterday, & the tractor started to get a chug to it like a 2-cyl Deere. I was in road gear, w.o.t. & had just got back up to speed after a stop sign. It just up & started missing, first one cylinder, then two. I got in the driveway & looked over the engine. Nuthin'. Started the tractor, same deal. Pulled the plugs; 1 & 2 are clean, 3 & 4 are sooty. Gap is fine. Wires & plugs are a year or two old. Cap is clean with barely any buildup on the contacts(?). I have figured out that cyl 1 & 2 are the problem cylinders. Those two plug wires were left off by accident & the engine was started. It sounded the same when running. I put 1 & 2 back on & removed #3. No start. Then wire #4. Same deal. I have not checked the fuel system, I will be doing that when I am done here. Could I have a valve or two hanging up? I feared it might be the head gasket, but the exhaust is clean. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

Most likely you loosened up some carbon inside the cylinders and a few tiny flakes of it got wedged under the valves, preventing them from fully closing. Might be time to pull the head and do a valve job.

mkirsch · Oct 11, 2011

Basic spark test:

Pull the plug, reinstall the plug wire, and lay it against a metal part of the tractor.

Make sure the tractor is in neutral (it might also be a good idea to unplug the other three wires), and spin the starter.

If the plug sparks, you have spark.

Sounds like you're not firing on #1 and #2. If the plugs have fire, then you've got a valve issue.

Super-H-Mike · Oct 11, 2011

I always try new plugs first thing, they are cheap and doesn t take much to foul them on the old tractors I have found.

Dennis K (WA) · Oct 11, 2011

Had the same type of thing happen years ago on a car.
Turned out the wear pad on the points had worn down and was not getting spark to one or two plugs.
Adjusted points and all ok.
good luck
Dennis

Janicholson · Oct 11, 2011

Swap the rear plugs with the front plugs and see if it still runs on 2 cylinders. If it does, and they are still the rear 2, thendo a compression check on the tractor and let us know what it is. Valves could have stuck open, allowing pushrods to jump off. Or carbon under the intakes. Let us know. Jim

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 11, 2011

I don't think the engine has 200 hrs since the rebuild about 6 years ago. I wouldn't rule out an inspection, though. That would give me a good excuse to get a borescope. Hmmmmm.

Mike

rustyfarmall · Oct 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 09:13:52 10/11/11) I don't think the engine has 200 hrs since the rebuild about 6 years ago. I wouldn't rule out an inspection, though. That would give me a good excuse to get a borescope. Hmmmmm.

Mike

I've been looking for a good excuse to get a borescope myself.

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 11, 2011

I tried new plugs, wires, cap & rotor. Same ol' thing. Two things I noted, #1. The engine spins rather fast for two out of four "beats". #2. I noticed that there is a puttering sound comming out of the intake when I hit the kill switch & a little whisp of smoke or vapor comes out of the air cleaner. The sound is more pronounced with the air cleaner off. That's where I'm at now. I have to get the baler greased & back out there. I shall return this evening.

Thanks again,
Mike

Hendrik · Oct 11, 2011

Do a "quick and dirty" compression test by removing the plugs and holding your finger over each of the plug holes consecutively while cranking the engine over. If a cylinder has little or no compression you will detect that.
Using the hand crank (plugs mounted) and listening as to where the compression "escapes" may also help.
Good luck and report back to us!

rustyfarmall · Oct 11, 2011

(quoted from post at 12:12:30 10/11/11) I tried new plugs, wires, cap & rotor. Same ol' thing. Two things I noted, #1. The engine spins rather fast for two out of four "beats". #2. I noticed that there is a puttering sound comming out of the intake when I hit the kill switch & a little whisp of smoke or vapor comes out of the air cleaner. The sound is more pronounced with the air cleaner off. That's where I'm at now. I have to get the baler greased & back out there. I shall return this evening.

Thanks again,
Mike

"The engine spins rather fast for 2 out of 4 beats"

I'd bet money you have a burned valve or 2.

Jason the Red · Oct 11, 2011

Have you checked if the manifold is loose?

TomH in PA · Oct 11, 2011

"I tried new plugs, wires, cap & rotor. "

Not new points? At least file them; when it misses like that the first thing to check is (are?) the points.

Tom Fleming · Oct 11, 2011

Check for spark on all 4 plugs first. Then do compression test on each cylinder while you have the plugs out.

report back what you find.

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 11, 2011

Holy t-shirts Batman!!! I am beat. It's been a VERY long time since I pulled bales out of a baler. Man are my hinges a-hurtin'! I couldn't thank my Uncle enough for providing actual two-cylinder power to do all of the raking & baling, yesterday & today. That's actually some pretty smooth power that comes from the PTO on those JD A's. It wasn't all clunky, like I had imagined (No, I don't get out much. Lol!)

Ok, I had enough ooomph left in my britches to do a poor man's compression test & check the points. The points look pretty much like they did when they were new, last fall. Proper gap 'n' all. Shoot! I forgot to check the manifold. I'll get to it tomorrow. The compression on cyl's 3 & 4 was enough to throw my hand against that nasty little curved-in edge that runs along the bottom of the hood. That %&%#*^ thing hurt! Finger got a little hot, too. The compression on 1 & 2 was about half that. I'm going in to the dealership tomorrow to borrow a compression tester. I'll report my findings then & keep an eye open on this post in the mean time.

Thanks again very much!!!
G'nite all,
Mike

Owen Aaland · Oct 11, 2011

From your symptoms my guess would be a blown head gasket between cylinders 1 & 2. If there was coolant leaking as result of the blown gasket that would explain why those two plugs were so clean. Water or coolant in a running engine does a good job of removing carbon deposits.

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 12, 2011

Wouldn't there be some kind of steam/water comming out of the exhaust, if the head gasket is bad? I would think there should be some kind of visible sign, anyhow.

Mike

Owen Aaland · Oct 12, 2011

A gasket can blow between cylinders and as long as no water passages are breached it may not leak any coolant.

Absent Minded Farmer · Oct 12, 2011

I don't know why, but I had thought there was water between the cylinders. Your post made me dig out the old gasket. Not a lot of room there for a water passage.

So, is there a slight chance I can just get away with replacing the head gasket, if that is the problem, or is there going to be milling/machining involved?

It may be a day or two before I can get a compression tester & space in the garage. Once I start work, I'll keep you & everyone else posted.

Mike

Some kind of new to me issue with my H...

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